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#1 sabretooth

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 18:14

Greetings!

Long time lurker, first time poster :)

 

I have recently contacted ABRSM about the possibility of using a previously-examined grade 8 piece as 'own choice' material for an ARSM seeing as there are only a few minutes of time left to fill in the programme and (as expected) received the following:

 

"Many thanks for getting in touch.

It is not permitted to present a pieces, which a candidate has already been examined on. Therefore [...] would need to learn a new piece to cover the 4 minutes remaining"

 

It is likely that we will add a repeat or two to make up the time... Or maybe finally attempt the Gershwin (!)

 

I did send another query as a reply and did not yet get a response so figured I could perhaps ask here:

Does anyone know if part of a piece (for example a single movement of a 3-movement sonata) has been examined previously, would the performance of the whole sonata still be permitted? Similarly with something like Sculthorpe's Night pieces. Snow, Moon and Flowers are currently in grade 8, but these along with Night and Stars are in the ASRM listings.

 

Thanks a lot for any input!

 

s

 


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#2 andante_in_c

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 18:46

There are quite a few instances of pieces in the flute diploma lists (eg the Mozart concerti) where one movement is set for Grade 8, two for DipABRSM and the whole concerto set for LRSM. While this is to do with the comparatively small size of the flute repertoire, there is no reason why the board should not allow this for piano when they allow this for other instruments. So I think you will be fine, and have a good, strong argument if you are challenged on it.


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#3 Crock

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 22:42

There are several examples in the ARSM sample videos of the candidates playing pieces that have also been set for Grade 8, e.g., Piano, The Man I Love (Gershwin), Violin, Romance in F (Beethoven) and the Gigue from the Bach Partita in D minor.


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#4 sabretooth

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 11:35

Thank you both for your input. That makes sense.

 

There are several examples in the ARSM sample videos of the candidates playing pieces that have also been set for Grade 8, e.g., Piano, The Man I Love (Gershwin), Violin, Romance in F (Beethoven) and the Gigue from the Bach Partita in D minor.

 

Crock, the question wasn't really whether there are overlaps on the syllibi, as this much is a given. It is more the question that certain performances may render some later choices unusable, despite these choices being valid for other candidates.

 

Here are a couple of examples.

Alice plays Chopin Waltz in B minor for grade 8 piano (C3 in 2015-2016), can she then play the same piece either as own choice or pick it from the ARSM syllabus if it were there? (it isn't) - According to the response from ABRSM - no. Fair enough.

 

But:

Bob plays Gershwin 'The Man I Love' for grade 8 piano. Does this mean that Bob cannot now play 'The Man I Love AND I Got Rhythm' from the ARSM or dipABRSM syllabi as 'part' of this performance has already been examined? From what I gather from your responses, this should be permitted.

 

Anyway, I pinged ABRSM about this and will update here when I have a response in case it helps others. I wish you both a pleasant day and thank you for taking the time to respond :)

 

s


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#5 Crock

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 12:57

Thank you both for your input. That makes sense.

 

There are several examples in the ARSM sample videos of the candidates playing pieces that have also been set for Grade 8, e.g., Piano, The Man I Love (Gershwin), Violin, Romance in F (Beethoven) and the Gigue from the Bach Partita in D minor.

 

Crock, the question wasn't really whether there are overlaps on the syllibi, as this much is a given. It is more the question that certain performances may render some later choices unusable, despite these choices being valid for other candidates.

 

Here are a couple of examples.

Alice plays Chopin Waltz in B minor for grade 8 piano (C3 in 2015-2016), can she then play the same piece either as own choice or pick it from the ARSM syllabus if it were there? (it isn't) - According to the response from ABRSM - no. Fair enough.

 

But:

Bob plays Gershwin 'The Man I Love' for grade 8 piano. Does this mean that Bob cannot now play 'The Man I Love AND I Got Rhythm' from the ARSM or dipABRSM syllabi as 'part' of this performance has already been examined? From what I gather from your responses, this should be permitted.

 

Anyway, I pinged ABRSM about this and will update here when I have a response in case it helps others. I wish you both a pleasant day and thank you for taking the time to respond :)

 

s

 AH, OK.  Since "The Man I Love" and "I Got Rhythm" are separate pieces, then given these rules Bob can play "I Got Rhythm" but not "The Man I Love". 


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#6 SingingPython

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 20:56

Come to think of it, it is probably also the case that if you present a programme for ARSM and then enter for the Dip, you can't repeat any pieces in your new programme despite having exactly the same repertoire lists to choose from?  (I haven't looked up the regulations on this yet.  My daughter might doing ARSM singing soon, before she finishes school, though if current circumstances were different I'd be encouraging her to do the full dip straight up)


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#7 sabretooth

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 22:12

Hi SingingPython,

 

https://forums.abrsm.org...2020-final2.pdf page 20 states:

 

 

An examiner’s assessment of a piece or song will be based on the performance given at that time towards the qualification for which the candidate has been entered. Prior performances of the same pieces or songs will not be taken into account for the qualification.Candidates may not perform the same repertoire (in full or individual pieces) for both an ARSM and a DipABRSM qualification. If choosing to enter for both qualifications, irrespective of when the exams are taken, the pieces presented must be different

 

So this should answer your question. Alas, it did not answer mine adequately as it only mentions repetitions between diplomas and not grades :)

 

Best regards


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#8 sabretooth

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 11:28

Just an update on this for those who are interested. The ABRSM reply is as follows:

 

 

I have been in consultation with out Learning & Qualifications team and can confirm that both of these instances would be fine in this case.

Unlike in Graded exams, ARSM and DipABRSM exams are assessed as a performance and not individual pieces. Therefore presenting an entire work, and not just a movement, gives the examiner much more to consider whilst marking the performance.

 

So it is as we all thought.

Thanks to those who replied :)

s


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#9 Wai Kit Leung

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 22:23

So are they saying it is permissible to present (in diploma exams) pieces which have been presented in previous exams?

Just an update on this for those who are interested. The ABRSM reply is as follows:


I have been in consultation with out Learning & Qualifications team and can confirm that both of these instances would be fine in this case.
Unlike in Graded exams, ARSM and DipABRSM exams are assessed as a performance and not individual pieces. Therefore presenting an entire work, and not just a movement, gives the examiner much more to consider whilst marking the performance.


So it is as we all thought.
Thanks to those who replied :)
s

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#10 sabretooth

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 20:59

So are they saying it is permissible to present (in diploma exams) pieces which have been presented in previous exams?
 

 

No, not as-is.

If you play a Chopin Nocturne for grade 8 you cannot then play the same one for a diploma.

You can however preform full works where a part of the work (perhaps a single movement) has previously been examined.

 

Hope that clears it up :)


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