Jump to content


Photo

Debussy - Clair de Lune


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 Nine and a Half Fingers

Nine and a Half Fingers

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 96 posts
  • Member: 893737
    Joined: 29-September 15

Posted 31 January 2020 - 09:23

How to play the C-flat in bar 50 (if I've counted correctly - just before the Tempo I marking)?? There are no indications on my copies of the score, but some performances have it emphasized as if it is part of the top line, some don't, some hard to tell. Quite difficult to avoid hearing it emphasized once you "know its there".


  • 0

#2 chris13

chris13

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 612 posts
  • Member: 7226
    Joined: 21-June 06
  • Lancaster; originally from the Rhubarb Triangle, Heavy Woollen District, Yorkshire

Posted 31 January 2020 - 09:48

I have two copies of Clair de Lune but guess that both could have been edited. The C flat is not phrased as part of the top line.


  • 0

#3 Invidia

Invidia

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 879 posts
  • Member: 12564
    Joined: 29-June 07
  • London

Posted 31 January 2020 - 13:09

I haven't seen any score where it is part of the top line either. In fact it is at the end of a slur, so difficult to argue Debussy would have wanted it emphasised...
 
Personally I think that listeners should know it's there (harmonically) but not as part of the melody. I find this easier to achieve by playing the top line a little louder vs. trying to make the accompaniment any quieter.

  • 0

#4 fsharpminor

fsharpminor

    Maestro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17943 posts
  • Member: 7089
    Joined: 07-June 06
  • Heswall, Wirral (originally Keighley, Yorks)

Posted 31 January 2020 - 14:56

I concur with the other respondees.


  • 0

#5 Nine and a Half Fingers

Nine and a Half Fingers

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 96 posts
  • Member: 893737
    Joined: 29-September 15

Posted 31 January 2020 - 18:25

Thanks for your replies - as an extra question do you not hear the C-flat with emphasis in any recordings/performances as I nearly always do?? I'm in agreement with you all in that it shouldn't stand out but ..... hmmmmm I'm beginning to think I've convinced myself I'm hearing something that may or may not be there...

How about this one (of many) e.g.

https://www.youtube....h?v=4fvo_iOuSck


  • 0

#6 chris13

chris13

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 612 posts
  • Member: 7226
    Joined: 21-June 06
  • Lancaster; originally from the Rhubarb Triangle, Heavy Woollen District, Yorkshire

Posted 31 January 2020 - 19:02

In measure 50 of the recording perhaps there is less emphasis of the top line and a heavy landing on the C flat, but these are details way beyond my pay grade. Even when I was playing this piece regularly I would never have got it anywhere near right.

 

Edit. I wasn't keen on the tone coming out of the piano in the opening Andante. Maybe it was the speakers on my laptop or the mics used for the recording.


  • 0

#7 jch48

jch48

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 549 posts
  • Member: 25823
    Joined: 26-February 08
  • East Midlands

Posted 04 February 2020 - 13:07

without the score in front of me.. are you talking about the last page where the opening material returns? At this point there is a magical Cb (in the LH I think) which deserves some emphasis because it is different to how that material is presented at the start and is unexpected. Having seen the sheet music on youtube that version has an accent and a really good pianist can voice it so one hears it lead to Bb in the next harmony.


  • 0

#8 agricola

agricola

    Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1844 posts
  • Member: 545
    Joined: 01-February 04

Posted 04 February 2020 - 13:46

Bars 49 to 51 contain a sort of hidden melody in the upper notes of the arpeggios -- Bb-C-Bb-A-Cb-A  --> Ab of Bar 51 which echoes some of the similar figures used throughout the piece.  Perhaps that is what is being brought out here, although having tried it I found it hard to do effectively.


  • 0