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Brexit - your vote and why?


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#811 Aquarelle

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 23:11

After last night’s jaw-droppingly seismic shift in politics, let’s hope that at least some of the fractious debates about Brexit will now melt away and that the country can get back to some sort of normality.  Outside of Westminster, Gina Miller has also accepted defeat and there will be no more attempts to overturn the referendum result.  It’s now up to the new government to try to satisfy the hopes of those who want to leave the EU, whilst at the same time assuaging the fears of former remainers by keeping strong - albeit different - ties with “our EU friends and partners”, to quote the PM.  Is it too much to hope for “peace and goodwill” at this time of year - I hope not :)

I think we can hope for a very short calmer period. but I am not optimistic. The result of this selective election only means that Boris Johnson now has a sufficient majority to actually "get Brexit done."  But the nitty gritty of the negotiations will start now and as people begin at last to understand what they are going to lose I suspect feelings will run just as high. Of course  Johnson and the British press will blame their "EU friends and neighbours" for failure of the UK negotiators to get what they want. They won't, i think be able to understand that they can't have their cake and eat it too. And I don't suppose the  said friends and neighbours will feel very kindly disposed to the UK either. After all, they stand to lose as well and they have their own interests to protect..

 

I couldn't really raise much interest in this election since I am one of a  large group of British citizens  very much concerned with the situation but  who have been deprived of their  vote.  Anyway, judging by the alternative "leaders" we might have got in a different result I can't say that the horizon would look any better. We had better make the best of the short season of peace and goodwill because I doubt if it will last. 

 

I have asked myself what on earth I would have voted if I had been able to. I would have gone to the polling station out of respect for the women who fought for me to have a vote. I expect I would have invalidated my voting paper by writing something rude about the quality of British politcal leadership - which no one would have bothered to read anyway.  At the moment I just despair.


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#812 elemimele

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Posted Yesterday, 00:02

let's all try to enjoy some peace and goodwill for the moment; Boris will get his Brexit, but I wonder how long he'll survive the bucking bronco of current conservatism before someone stabs him in the back and nicks the leadership? With a massive majority, he can do whatever he likes in Westminster - but now he's got to make everything happen that he said he would. He has no excuse if he doesn't. It's a time for doing, not talking; delivering promises, not making them. There won't be any more fridges to hide in, and nowhere else for the buck to stop. Absolute power brings absolute responsibility. Should be interesting, at any rate.


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#813 ma non troppo

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Posted Yesterday, 00:15

I don't feel British anymore after the election result. I think the divisions between us are just too big to heal.
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#814 hummingbird

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Posted Yesterday, 13:26

I think the divisions between us are just too big to heal.

 

It depends on whether the will is there.  I once fell out very badly with a neighbour, to the point where we ignored each other for a very long time.  Then, quite suddenly, we made it up and they now give me vegetables from their allotment.  If people want to heal divisions, they will do.  I can only say that when my neighbour and I let go the past, I felt as if a weight had been lifted from my shoulders.


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#815 ma non troppo

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Posted Yesterday, 14:57

Yes, but this is going to run and run. I can see possible riots.
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#816 thara96

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Posted Yesterday, 15:53

This is going to carry on for at least another year. That much I can say now. 


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#817 Aquarelle

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Posted Today, 15:52

My ex negotiator friend tells me that all BJ can hope for in January is a general agreement on goods - which will in any case be very difficult to reach. This will be followed by an interminable series of negotaitions cocnerning such things as trading standards, freedom of movement, travel arrangememnts, residency rights and obligations, reciprocal pension and health care arrangements, educational possibilities,  fishing arrangements, research  and university co-operation and thousands of other things. Anyone who thinks these negotiations can be completed within a couple of years is living in cloud cuckoo land. Each point will be one of contention and will lead to further division within the UK and outside it. Basically  BJ's UK will want its cake and eat it too  and the EU will not want to give the UK all the benefits of membership since it doesn't want to be a member. 

 

Trade with countries outside the EU will not expand because until the UK has sorted all these points the countries with whom new trade arrangements are theoretically to be made, won't know exactly who they are negotiating with nor on what terms. The big trading blocks are not very likely to bother with the UK except to  bully it and eat it up.

 

Meanwhile, I think that certain elements of the British press will go on fuelling the hatred by telling the population that the EU is the source of all the evils and difficulties the UK faces in these negotiations  - as it has been doing for years. That is how they sell their news - by pandering to that sort of scapegoatism. Like misterioso, I have no faith in any healing process. It's sad, but there it is. In any case, healing processes take a very long time.

 

I also think that eventually  someone in the Conservative party will (figuratively spealing) find a way to  put a knife in BJ's back pinch his job. After all, large majorities are hard to hold together. Once the country begins to realise  it has been tricked on to a a slippery slope, once people begin to feel the pinch of inevitable shortages, unemployment, high prices and  difficult travel arrangements  and so on the whole idea of leaving the EU may well just die a quiet death. Thank you David Cameron.

 

I would just like to add that the EU is  of course, no paradise in itself but most of its members have a younger generation who are concerned for their future and who seem more willing to try to work together for that future than do their elders. Working together is never easy but it is a lot better than working against and everlastingly trying to destroy what  small sparks of cooperation do exist. And I definitely do not believe  that those small sparks will be served by walking out. The UK has put itself into  a "them and us " situation . I have heard the idea put forward that outside the EU the UK will be able to have better relations with Europe. I'm afraid I think that is just plain rubbish.


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#818 Norway

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Posted Today, 17:10

@ Aquarelle or Misterioso. Can Dozy Hen and I come and pitch our tent on your lawn please? (She's French and I've got a degree in Italian).


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#819 Aquarelle

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Posted Today, 19:56

Any time !


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#820 Norway

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Posted Today, 20:01

Can you imagine what a laugh that would be? :lol:


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#821 Arundodonuts

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Posted Today, 20:37

 

and so on the whole idea of leaving the EU may well just die a quiet death. 

 

Unfortunately it's not likely to be that simple. Once the Withdrawal Agreement goes through we are effectively out of the EU. So if we decide after a while it wasn't such a good idea after all we will need to re-apply for membership. Then you can forget about the rebate we've been enjoying since Margaret Thatcher negotiated it. If they will have us back at all.


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#822 Aquarelle

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Posted Today, 20:54

Yes, I suppose you must be right. Totally depressing.


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#823 hummingbird

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Posted Today, 21:29

Aquarelle, I'm sorry to say this because I respect your views in so many ways, and although I don't intend to pick up on every point you've made, but just as Jeremy Corbyn and Labour badly misjudged the electorate, I do believe that from your home in France you are misjudging the UK public, the press, the new government, and I believe our future relations with EU.  I don't pretend to be an expert on politics - far from it - but at least I read very widely about political news in the UK (and I don't mean the partisan press) and I regularly watch the Parliament channel to find out what politicians are actually saying rather than what the media report that they've said.  I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but on the other hand, obviously I can't say I'm not glad that Britain is no longer shackled by Brexit.  Next year will no doubt be difficult (is there ever an "easy" year in politics?) but you may not have noticed that Boris Johnson has made a career out of doing what people said couldn't be done.  A Tory succeeding Red Ken as Mayor of London?  "Vote Leave" under BJ winning the Referendum?  BJ as Prime Minister?  Getting the EU to re-open negotiations when they swore they wouldn't?  And most of all, succeeding in breaking the "red wall" across the north of England, smashing up to 100 years of Labour history in some cases.  I've said before that I'm not blind to BJ's faults - and he certainly has enough of them - but I do give him credit for setting out to achieve the impossible and succeeding in doing so.  [As an aside, and I may well be proved wrong, but I would not be surprised if one of BJ's aims is to win back Scotland at the next election, because at the moment that would seem utterly impossible.  He will be helped by the financial institutions confirming that they would desert an independent Scotland, as investment would dry up because no investor will trust the currency as it will no longer be backed by the Bank of England and Scotland will have to start its credit rating from scratch.  North Sea oil, which the SNP believes will fuel its economy (no pun intended), is a finite resource which is increasingly becoming a toxic commodity.]  Anyway, back to Brexit - I think it is evident that the public will continue to turn a blind eye to BJ's faults if he delivers a more prosperous Britain across the board.  There are already signs that that will happen, and that's before the new government has even done anything. I've read somewhere that since the polls indicated a Conservative victory a few weeks ago, three trillion pounds has already been re-invested in this country because investors have confidence in the UK post-Brexit even if some remainers don't.  The financial pundits predict that that influx will continue.  I'm genuinely sorry that some people see Brexit as a threat rather than an opportunity, and of course I'm sorry that some individuals may be adversely affected.  Indeed I may be one of those who does not benefit from Brexit directly, but I do believe the country as a whole has a more optimistic and stable future ahead, and that is something that I can't help but be glad about.  I'm only sorry that not everyone shares the optimism that "getting Brexit done" has started to unleash.

 

Sorry for the long post :ninja:


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