Jump to content


Photo

Recorder Thread!


  • Please log in to reply
4659 replies to this topic

#4651 old_and_grumpy

old_and_grumpy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 506 posts
  • Member: 889252
    Joined: 27-October 14

Posted 09 September 2021 - 15:12

Am enjoying my recorder journey but I'm glad I started out on the clarinet!

 

Just out of interest, why?  I dallied one way and another with all the woodwinds except flute before settling down and "properly" learning recorder but I'm not really sure why that worked out so well.  Probably a combination of things - I'd recently retired and had time (though I could have put that into improving my clarinet playing, that being the woodwind I was dallying with at the time); had moved to a house in the country and could suddenly practise any time I wanted without worrying about the noise; found a tutor book for recorder that worked for me; etc.  As you will be aware from other threads, I have recently resumed my dalliance with the clarinet.  I'm enjoying it, but it's nice on recorder not to have to muck about with reeds, and overblowing an octave is easier than overblowing a twelfth.


  • 0

#4652 Maruja

Maruja

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Member: 629271
    Joined: 10-January 13

Posted 10 September 2021 - 12:31

Well, just because it's another wind instrument I guess - and I do have some little woodwindy tricks up my sleeve, that I wouldn't have had, had I started on recorder. I also had a very good clarinet teacher so had a good foundation.

BTW, thank you so much for suggesting the alternate fingering chart - I have it all printed out and now that we have some new music to learn, I will consult it when and if I come up with any tricky combination of fingerings.

 

I have another couple of questions for you (and anyone else who cares to reply!)

- a dear friend has given me a second hand wooden recorder which has been renewed/restored. It usually plays very sweetly - but, one of the corks on the joint is coming off and so I am avoiding taking the bottom joint off entirely. Is it OK for me to restick it - if so, what adhesive should I use?

 

- the other question - how would you normally finish a note? On clarinet I would do this with the tongue, but somehow on the recorder it sounds a bit final and abrupt. I could do it just with the breath. What do you recorder players advise?

 

I really like the recorder though - it sounds so light and the fingers can move so quickly. And as you say, there's no pesky reed to worry about or mouthpieces or all the other paraphenalia. 

 

I was talking to another very good recorder player at my band the other day and mentioned that I could hold a note for much longer on the clarinet than on the recorder, where I seem to need to take a breath more frequently. 
She murmured something about back pressure (and mentioned the flute along with this) but I didn't really understand what she was getting at. Can you enlighten me?

 

Best wishes

 

M.


  • 0

#4653 old_and_grumpy

old_and_grumpy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 506 posts
  • Member: 889252
    Joined: 27-October 14

Posted 10 September 2021 - 14:05

It does indeed seem easier to start another woodwind than to opt for something really very different.

 

I probably can't properly answer any of your questions, but my suggestions for what they are worth are:

 

- I think it would be fine to stick the cork back down unless it's also worn in which case you might as well go the whole hog and replace it.  I presume traditionally some sort of glue boiled out of a hoof or whatever would have been used.  I did a recorder making course a few years ago and the only glue used was modern superglue.  You could go down the cotton thread route instead - it's certainly easier and you can simply add or subtract a little if the wood expands or shrinks.

 

- Michaela Petri says she uses "soft tonguing" or something like that, I can't remember exactly how she put it, and that's what I aim for.  If you let the breath die away the note will generally go flat, which is a recorder no-no.

 

- I too can hold a note longer on a clarinet, but I assumed that was because the reed sort of "meters" the air stream and reduces the volume of air you are exhaling.  I gather it's even more so with experienced oboe players who have to positively get rid of excess air from time to time just so they can breathe in some oxygen.  However, it doesn't make sense to me that the same would apply to a flute, which seems to have even less resistance than a recorder.  So, I shall look forward to someone else enlightening us both!


  • 0

#4654 Maruja

Maruja

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Member: 629271
    Joined: 10-January 13

Posted 10 September 2021 - 14:51

Thanks for the prompt reply! I think I will try the cotton thread first of all. I don't want to go back to my friend and say I have already destroyed her gift!

M


  • 0

#4655 elemimele

elemimele

    Virtuoso

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2084 posts
  • Member: 895612
    Joined: 17-July 16

Posted 10 September 2021 - 16:11

If the recorder's nice, and you want to be on the safe side, you could find a local woodwind repair shop and ask them to reattach it for you. It shouldn't be a huge job for them.

On stopping notes (and this might be rubbish, I might be pontificating wildly from a position of ignorance here):

(1) This really only applies to the last note of a phrase; the rest are normal articulation.

(2) Yes, you can stop notes with your tongue to avoid the drop-off, fade-into-flatness effect that OaG described. But it's not a flat-out aggressive tonguing, it's enough just to gently touch the tip of your tongue to the top of your mouth, hard palette bit behind the top teeth. You can do this quite gently.

(3) It's a bit like doing a hill start in a car, backwards. In a hill start you are just taking the brake off at precisely the moment where the engine/clutch is supplying enough oomph to make the car go forwards. It's a matter of coordination. In stopping a note on the recorder you're ceasing to blow down it at the same time as you're putting the brakes on with your tongue, and as you get better at it, the more you do it, the better your coordination will become, until you're half stopping-blowing, and half tonguing. That way you will neither have the drop-off-flatness that would happen if the lungs did all the work, nor the abrupt stop that you'd get if you try to keep breathing as you apply tongue-stopping.

(4) Older books, in any case, tend to discuss quite strong articulations for normal notes, e.g. T-K consonants, which are maybe more appropriate on instruments with a stronger wind-stream. On a recorder, D or G are good consonants for general-purpose articulation (and if you're using them, gently, in normal articulation, it will seem more natural to use them in the special articulation of the end of a long note). Even gentler articulations are often useful on a recorder; one of my favourites is did'ling successive notes.

 

Yup, the ideal lung-build for recorder is to be able to generate about 3 cubic yards of air, but at a pressure that won't even extinguish a candle. An oboist needs to generate about 4 cubic cm of air, but can blow up car-tyres by mouth...


  • 0

#4656 elemimele

elemimele

    Virtuoso

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2084 posts
  • Member: 895612
    Joined: 17-July 16

Posted 10 September 2021 - 18:11

... a follow-up: I notice I don't always stop long notes with my tongue. I might be doing completely the wrong thing here, but I reckon if you go quickly from the note to breathing in, there is no noticeable tailing-off-into-flatness. Not sure what everyone else thinks?


  • 0

#4657 Maruja

Maruja

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Member: 629271
    Joined: 10-January 13

Posted 11 September 2021 - 09:41

Thank you both for these pointers, which I certainly will try out...

 

Another odd question - I was reading somewhere about a spray that you can use to prevent fogging up on your glasses (ie when wearing a mask). Do you think this might work on a recorder? I think I would only try it first on my plastic Yamaha. I know I am a rather 'spitty' player so my woodwinds do get water logged quite quickly.


  • 0

#4658 old_and_grumpy

old_and_grumpy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 506 posts
  • Member: 889252
    Joined: 27-October 14

Posted 11 September 2021 - 10:01

Welcome to the wonderful world of waterlogged recorders - my single biggest bugbear with the instrument.  I'm quite a "wet" player and have had loads of problems with it.  The 2 best options are:

 

- use washing up liquid as an anti-condense solution, it's cheap and works very well.  There are lots of youtube videos about this.

 

- use Bernolin's stuff - it's a lot more expensive than detergent, but I find it works very well and lasts longer (though when it dries it's not completely invisible, so you either have to be not bothered about that, or wipe off the excess while it's still wet).  It has converted one of my wooden recorders from virtually useless to a very playable instrument.  See https://www.bernolin...glish/index.htm


  • 0

#4659 Maruja

Maruja

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Member: 629271
    Joined: 10-January 13

Posted 11 September 2021 - 14:52

Ooh thanks for that tip! I shall check out the link immediately!


  • 0

#4660 Zixi

Zixi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 884 posts
  • Member: 895683
    Joined: 08-August 16

Posted 12 September 2021 - 14:34

There's another suggestion... have several recorders! And shake 'em! :)

 

Re ending notes. I once read something about this and one of the suggestions was, if the note was at the end of a piece, dramatically removing the recorder from your mouth. The theatrical in me loves that one. I've forgotten the other suggestions.


  • 0