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Fur Elise


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#1 adultpianist

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 05:17

https://www.youtube....edZc6Owk4&t=87s

 

I am learning to play this but I have a question which is bugging me.   If you watch the beginning of this tuition video, the person is teaching you how to play a chord.   He is telling you to play certain notes but add an extra note.    Technically you play E and C then F and C and finally E G C but the man in this video tells you to play an extra note of B flat.     So when I played it like that in my piano lesson, my teacher said you do not play it like that and you just play the white notes.    If that is what she is saying then why does this video say hit the extra note?    I want to query this with my teacher but I do not have my lesson until next week and this is really bugging me.

 

 

 

 


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#2 Ligneo Fistula

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 06:30

All the scores on IMSLP notate the chord you're querying as EGC in the RH:

jzjFrM8.jpg

I can only guess the online tutor is using another version/edition or simply that's just how he plays it or learnt it. 

 

There's already a Bb in the LH and unfortunately my music theory isn't up to knowing whether his doubling the flattened (minor) seventh in a dominant seventh chord as he is showing is in fact a no-no for this era of music.


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#3 EllieD

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 07:41

The video was too irritrating to watch that little clip more than twice, but it seemed the presenter was using a score where the final chord of those three was just the E and the C, which as LF says, is not on any score I've ever seen. Furthermore, the presenter says something like "If you want the chord to sound nice and rich add a B flat" implying that he knows how to make this music sound better than Beethoven did. So it appears a) the presenter is using the wrong score and b) he thinks he can correct Beethoven.

 

I really wouldn't bother with online videos when you have a real human being teacher who can help you learn to play!


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#4 corenfa

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 08:02

There are different editions. When I learnt it that chord had a B flat, meaning, the edition I had had a B flat. I don't know if this was embellishment on the editor's part or a genuine uncertainty in the manuscript.
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#5 violinlove

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 11:01

The online tutor doesn't play the B Flat in the left hand as seen in the extract from the score posted by Ligneo Fistula. He's put the B flat in the right hand instead.

 

I have no idea how anyone can learn to play Für Elise from those videos - but we are all different!

 

Are you learning Für Elise from notation with your piano teacher? You'd be much better off concentrating on doing that rather than watching a youtube video which looks like it could be a simplified version which is only going to cause confusion.


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#6 HelenVJ

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 11:08

I've never seen a respectable edition with a B flat in the RH, and I wonder how the OP's teacher feels about tuition being supplemented by random YouTube videos? Listening to a performance by (eg) Brendel might be a more constructive use of time.


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#7 corenfa

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 11:30

There are some older compilations of classical pieces which take immense liberties with editing. Whole sections left out, that sort of thing. I bought my partner a load of such from a charity shop without knowing. I can't remember which specific pieces this applied to but I would not be surprised if there existed at least one which treated Fur Elise in this way.
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#8 elemimele

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 12:45

To be fair, there's never any harm in listening - and as broadly as possible - but it's a good idea to discuss recordings with your teacher if you've got one. Evaluating recordings and deciding what to trust, what to like, and why you don't like what you don't like, is a big part of enlarging musical taste. Popular classics are particularly vulnerable to arrangements and dubious editions (and dubious performances), so what you hear might be very far from what the composer wrote.


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#9 fsharpminor

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 13:00

I have only ever seen the B flat in left hand, but it hardly makes much difference which hand the Bflat is in when you play the piece right through. A triviality.


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#10 Gordon Shumway

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 15:37

There are some strange and stiff-looking hand shapes in that video.

John Ogdon recorded Für Elise.


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#11 sbhoa

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 11:57

There are some strange and stiff-looking hand shapes in that video.

 

That's what I was thinking


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#12 adultpianist

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 12:43

This video is even worse.   It is an insult to Beethoven.  If Beethoven knew what this person has done to his composition then he would turn in his grave

 

https://www.youtube....Ke5PevSI&t=225s


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#13 adultpianist

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 12:52

I've never seen a respectable edition with a B flat in the RH, and I wonder how the OP's teacher feels about tuition being supplemented by random YouTube videos? Listening to a performance by (eg) Brendel might be a more constructive use of time.

I have not mentioned that I watched this video.   I only started watching it so I could see someone demonstrate the piece because when we go over anything new in the lesson, the teacher always demonstrates it to me but with this piece we had not got very far due to lack of time so I thought I would find a video because I thought rightly or wrongly the person in the video would only be demonstrating what the teacher would do with me so I just thought if she is not available or did not have time then someone else can do it , ie the teacher on the video but I guess the teacher on the video played it slightly wrongly and anyone who has never played it before would assume it was right if they were just listening and watching instead of following along with the score.

 

A lot of people learn instruments through youtube but how do you know the youtube teacher is any good?  He or she may in fact not be qualified to teach but may just be someone who has got to a standard and decided to teach a piece.   I could take a raw beginner and teach them how to play a C Major scale but I am no teacher lol


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#14 elemimele

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 19:01

That second video worried me intensely.

If you're going to mess around with Fuer Elise, do it properly. This link has been posted here before, but I had to go and listen to it to clear my head. It's Ethan Uslan, an amazingly talented old-time pianist, playing a rag-time adaptation, of enormous taste and cleverness, and freshness.


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#15 Banjogirl

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 19:31

And this all brings me back to the time when a child was introduced at a school concert as being extremely talented because he had taught himself Fur Elise, including the 'difficult middle section'. I kid you not, he played a version of the first sixteen bars in the wrong key, some of the tune was present, all of the accompaniment was invented by the child himself. It was truly appalling, yet the 'music' teacher gushed over him as if he were some kind of genius. One of the stranger things that happened in that often strange school.
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