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#3991 AdLibitum

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Posted 31 March 2020 - 10:56

The porter in the building where our offices are plays in a brass band and he is forever transcribing music. I never thought about why, but it makes sense if most stuff needs to be transposed.
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#3992 old_and_grumpy

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Posted 31 March 2020 - 12:00

I use lilypond  just because I'm used to that sort of markup environment.  However, I've been meaning for a while to come to grips with MuseScore etc properly: in principal, at least, using Audiveris OMR software to read in the music and MuseScore to transpose it should really speed things up.  I have tried MS before and never bothered to come to grips with it properly; have not even tried to install Audiveris.  However, I'm going to give it all a proper go - I have more time now the pubs are closed :)


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#3993 elemimele

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Posted 31 March 2020 - 12:40

<off topic> yeah, amazing isn't it? My poor little laptop must be wondering what's hit it, it's had a whole lot of strange stuff installed over the last couple of days that normally would be on my work PC, and some hobby-stuff that I've never got round to looking at.

 

I've never even tried Audiveris, but being able to read by machine would be brilliant.

 

Kid has just looked up from his tablet while I was trying to flute and said "Dad, I'm trying to read. Go downstairs, you're making a horrible racket". Well, thank you, offspring. Oh Ye of Exquisite Musical Taste. Yes, I know, you'll tolerate the BBC young musician of the year award, so your scale of measurement is reasonably well-calibrated. I won't take it personally. Not much, anyway. You can fetch your own biscuits, Mister.


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#3994 Zixi

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Posted 31 March 2020 - 13:25

I use MuseScore - very useful. I like it a lot.

 

elemimele - :lol: :lol: :lol:


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#3995 old_and_grumpy

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Posted 31 March 2020 - 13:49

I have just had a preliminary try with Audiveris and I'm quite impressed, it's not bad.  There are some inaccuracies though, to be fair, I did the usual trick of having only the most cursory glance at the manual before starting, so it's probably not working optimally.  Not sure how long it would take to fix up the errors - it is possible (I think!) to fix them up in Audiveris itself before exporting anything, but I didn't try that.  I exported it as an mxl file and both MuseScore and Lilypond were happy to import that, so it could be fixed up in either.  I'll have to experiment a bit more but it's clearly got potential - certainly worth trying out. 


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#3996 elemimele

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Posted 31 March 2020 - 19:38

I don't know about LillyPond, but MuseScore can of course play back to you what it thinks you've got written, which is a quick way to proof-read. It's far from perfect, but it's a sanity-check. Nice to hear Audiveris works; not sure whether it would be beyond my rather limited IT skills, but hey, maybe...

Aren't we lucky to live in an age of such good software? And of IMSLP. There's all those baroque-wigged composers having to trek the length and breadth of middle Europe on mud-tracks to copy down the works of the most famous cantors in other cities, and we don't even need to get wet feet. Probably a good thing at the moment. I'm quite looking forward to being allowed to get wet feet again.


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#3997 old_and_grumpy

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 09:26

I use Frescobaldi with LilyPond and it's possible to generate a midi file - it did it automatically for the file I imported.  It's not as seamless as with MuseScore though.  I installed Audiveris on Linux and, after a bit of fishing around for better instructions than the official handbook contained, it was actually pretty easy.  If you have Windows available though there is a straightforward option of downloading a binary that should just install and play - a 5 minute job.  I scanned a page of music from a book so ended up with a slightly lopsided jpeg image and it did quite a good job on that.  Audiveris can handle a few different image formats or pdf and something I read implied that it was better with pdf so I will give that a try.  I'll report back on how well it manages with that.


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#3998 old_and_grumpy

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 10:10

Wow - just tried Audiveris on a pdf downloaded from IMSLP and it was fantastic: much quicker than working on the jpeg was, and it looks much more accurate.  I haven't proof read it note-by-note but scanned the top line fairly closely.  The piece I chose has a recorder line with piano accompaniment and it's moderately complex (Bach).  It missed the odd thing: for example, there are a some mordents in the first few bars and it got all but one of them; the one it missed was badly placed and so close to the stave it was touching a beam, so presumably it got discarded for that reason.  However, I think it would be pretty quick to get it all perfect.

 

I have also tried it on a page of a facsimile score, also from IMSLP.  It has not done so well on that, though that is fair enough in a way as the score is not totally clear and contains some things, like treble clef on bottom line, that Audiveris probably isn't calibrated for.  Nonetheless, it got most of the notes right, so probably still quicker to fix up its output than to transcribe from scratch.

 

I think this could work very well for anyone who would like to get stuff into a machine-readable format for further processing.  It's free anyway at https://github.com/Audiveris/audiveris if you fancy giving it a try.


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#3999 LoneM

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 16:30

I've just tried to install Audiveris but it won't run. I have Windows 10, 64-bit, and downloaded the 64-bit version of Audiveris, but nothing happens, or rather I just get a message to say it can't run on my PC.  A bit more investigation shows that I don't have the correct JRE - mine is version 10 but Audiveris needs JRE 8.  There is more detailed info on installation here: https://bacchushlg.g.../binaries.html and even more here https://github.com/A...eris/issues/227  but it goes over my head a bit. I daren't install another, older JRE in case I scramble everything!


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#4000 old_and_grumpy

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 16:56

It says on their installation page that it needs JRE-8 but it turns out this is not strictly true.  I have JRE-11 and it works fine with that.  I did not install the binary, but you don't have to with Windows either.  If you want to try the git/gradle method, this works:

git clone https://github.com/A...s/audiveris.git

cd audiveris
git checkout java11
./gradlew clean run

Not sure if there is a JRE-10 option also, but I don't suppose it would hurt to try.  Or maybe upgrade your JRE to 11?


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#4001 LoneM

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 17:52

Many thanks, OG, but I've afraid I don't know how to implement your instructions.  Are you building from source code?   I tried pasting your first line (git clone...) into the terminal but it didn't like it: " 'git' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file." This was in the default C:\Users\lonem> directory which is probably where to start.

 

I'm not a complete computer novice (I used Linux for many years) but I need very detailed instructions, and if the 'response' doesn't match I'm stumped!


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#4002 old_and_grumpy

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 09:50

LoneM: you would need to install git first.  Git started life as a version control system but here it's being used a bit like a package manager (more BSD style than most linuxes, ie download source code and compile, rather than download and install binaries).  So, to answer your question, yes it is building from source code, but it's all handled very slickly with gradle (new to me) - none of the messing about looking for the right C compiler and all that stuff you used to have to do with make.

 

Sorry I don't have Windows so can't even try this out.  The Audiveris manual says you need tesseract, but that only matters if you want it to to transcribe words as well as music.  I did actually install tesseract but it isn't working, and since I'm not looking at anything with words I haven't bothered trying to sort that out.  You do need a JRE it will work with, and things are a bit muddier there because the manual seems to be out of date.  I did install JRE-8 but it didn't make things better; looking for a solution quickly took me to the information that it would work with JRE-11 and since that is what I have, I didn't look any further.  Audiveris also mention using Cygwin as an alternative to Windows command prompt.  I haven't used the latter for many years, but I gather Microsoft hasn't done much to keep it up to date, and given the unix background of the rest of the software, maybe it would be worth trying Cygwin.  However, if you want to keep it as simple as possible, you could try installing only git and working with command prompt - Audiveris gives instructions for that and there is no suggestion they don't work.

 

This is what I would be inclined to do because it should not make any difference to anything else on your system - I'm a great believer in avoiding collateral damage where possible!  Firstly, go ahead and install git and, optionally, cygwin - they are just stand-alone programs.  Cygwin provides a terminal so, if you have installed it, use that to run git.  Git's clone command will set up a complete directory on your computer with everything needed to build Audiveris, and gradle will handle the whole build process, and if it works you at least end up with something that matches up with your system. 

 

It's probably worth giving the basic instructions a go, even though I don't think they will work :)  That would involve

git clone https://github.com/A...s/audiveris.git

cd audiveris

./gradlew build (Linux & Mac, or Cygwin terminal under Windows) OR

gradlew.bat build (Windows terminal)

In the event that it works, great, you're done.  If it doesn't, it will almost certainly be a result of some missing dependency, and at that point it's decision time: invest more time and energy into it, or follow Homer Simpson's wise words and give up.  Assuming it does fail, I would at least try (a) using cygwin if you didn't, and (b) try checkout to switch to a different JRE version.  The example I found was for 11 but you have 10, maybe there is a branch for that.  The instructions for that are the ones I pasted in above, except try using 10:

git clone https://github.com/A...s/audiveris.git
cd audiveris
git checkout java10
./gradlew clean run

 

If it still doesn't work, you are at the point where you'd have to try changing JRE which you might not want to do.  Good luck.  Am happy to try to help so please feel free to ask, though I know the square root of nothing about Windows!
 


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#4003 elemimele

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 22:14

so... is "Excuse me" from Playford, played here, related to Van Ecyk's Excuse Moi? There's a sort of similarity of structure, but if so, this has been doing a lot of evolving. (must admit I didn't much like the Purcell or the king of Poland in this recording, but the first bit of Playford is lovely)


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#4004 AdLibitum

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 08:10

Isn't "excuse me" a term related to a dance? In that case that might be the connection.
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#4005 Zixi

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 10:09

Apart from having his picture over the door of my (old) study* I don't know a lot about Playford except bits of his music. However, in my experience, he takes the 'catchy' bits of other people's compositions and does things with them. So, I wouldn't be surprised. I'll see if I have his version here - but at the moment chaos still reigns...

 

*Don't ask me about the 'door' in the new one - if I accidentally close it when I'm in it, I can't get out so 'door' isn't a good description.

 

I hope you're all coping well! 


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