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United States of Europe


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#1 hummingbird

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 11:53

The concept of a United States of Europe is a wider issue than Brexit so I thought a new thread would be more appropriate.

The European Commission has been moving in the direction of a USE [ugly acronym, sorry] for some years, and the new President of the Commission is a committed federalist, who apparently wants to see a USE along the same lines as the USA by the time of her grandchildren’s generation.

The problem as I see it is that the federalist movement headed by the European Commission is trying to achieve it by “mission creep” rather than working out a proposition and selling it to the populace.  I don’t think it’s unnatural that some people are reluctant to keep walking blind into one of the most far-reaching constitutional changes in history, and it’s a regrettable fact - which politicians should have expected and still don’t seem to grasp - that some people feel so strongly about being treated like sheep, expected to be herded happily towards a USE without questioning whether it’s actually a good thing or not, that they react against it.

If the EU leaders were to make out a case for a USE, perhaps more people would be in favour of it.  A more democratic way than the current “mission creep” policy would be for each of the EU countries to have a Federalist Party which would put the case for a USE and ask people to vote for it.  Perhaps it wouldn’t get a large following at the current time because nobody is promoting the advantages of federalism, but in due course of time, who knows?

Would anybody like to join the debate on a United States of Europe?

 


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#2 Aquarelle

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 13:54

Well, I think you have hit the nail right on the head. I couldn't possibly say whether I would want to be part of a United States of Europe or not because before I could decide i would need to be fully informed and so would millions of others. That would mean sorting the lies from the truth, the advantages form the disadvantages and then can you imagine the negotiations to satisfy every country?  I think it would be a long and possibly tortuous  thing either way. If the Brexit division are anything to go by I suspect it would explode Europe rather than unite it unless it were a very long, gentle process perhaps influenced by things going on outside Europe.

 

But, whatever, I don't think anyone could agree with a creep policy. Does it really exist?  


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#3 BadStrad

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 09:59

But, whatever, I don't think anyone could agree with a creep policy. Does it really exist?

I know people who are positive that it does but never seem able to supply any verifiable evidence (perhaps because creep is hard to detect) apart from some EU politician said he wanted a USE. So I'd be interested to see answers to that question too.
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#4 hummingbird

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 13:28

Juncker's stated vision is "European Sovereignty" and his successor is of like mind.  This may be a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know.  Perhaps I should have been clearer in my original post but what I would really like to seek is views about what the pros and cons are of a sovereign United States of Europe, seeing as the EU Commission has failed to be clear about this, which it accepts and is looking at ways of redressing the issue in the EU countries, but obviously not in the UK.


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#5 Edwardo

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 19:12

I'd be happy to live in the USE.  I mean, they can hardly have politicians less trustworthy, stupid, venal or useless than those who currently 'run' this country.


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#6 BadStrad

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 19:15

they can hardly have politicians less trustworthy, stupid, venal or useless than those who currently 'run' this country.

Yup!
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#7 Tenor Viol

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 12:15

I have never understood the British press's deliberate misunderstanding of the word 'federal'. I have no issues with a 'federal' Europe since it means that decisions are taken at the most relevant level for the issue: nationally for national issues, centrally for things like common standards.


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#8 hummingbird

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 13:52

I have never understood the British press's deliberate misunderstanding of the word 'federal'. I have no issues with a 'federal' Europe since it means that decisions are taken at the most relevant level for the issue: nationally for national issues, centrally for things like common standards.

Juncker has stated that he wants to see a Sovereign Europe, as I mentioned above, which is different from a federal Europe, I believe.  His successor also wants a Sovereign Europe. 

 

 

...what I would really like to seek is views about what the pros and cons are of a sovereign United States of Europe


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