Jump to content


Photo

Very Naive Question – Progression to Fugues


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Ligneo Fistula

Ligneo Fistula

    Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1511 posts
  • Member: 529803
    Joined: 28-September 12
  • United Kingdom

Posted 30 August 2020 - 13:02

Is it wrong to think the route to playing 4+ part fugues (and other contrapuntal forms) is to start with the likes of two-part inventions?


  • 0

#2 corenfa

corenfa

    Virtuoso

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6739 posts
  • Member: 95861
    Joined: 28-March 10
  • Here

Posted 30 August 2020 - 13:05

No, I think it's sensible. I did that. The figurations are similar, there are just fewer voices.
  • 1

#3 fsharpminor

fsharpminor

    Maestro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18302 posts
  • Member: 7089
    Joined: 07-June 06
  • Heswall, Wirral (originally Keighley, Yorks)

Posted 30 August 2020 - 15:04

Yes , two part inventions, then 3 part inventions.   Most approachable WTC fugues maybe No 5 and 6 in Book 1.


  • 0

#4 EllieD

EllieD

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 943 posts
  • Member: 897806
    Joined: 04-June 17

Posted 31 August 2020 - 08:39

I've just been learning the 4 Part fugue in C Major in Book 1 - very hard, but really good fun working it all out! Is there a particular fugue you fancy trying, LF?


  • 0

#5 Ligneo Fistula

Ligneo Fistula

    Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1511 posts
  • Member: 529803
    Joined: 28-September 12
  • United Kingdom

Posted 31 August 2020 - 09:12

I've just been learning the 4 Part fugue in C Major in Book 1 - very hard, but really good fun working it all out! Is there a particular fugue you fancy trying, LF?

Oh heavens! Too many to mention! However, I am struggling with (indeed have always struggled since my schooldays) the well-known No.4 TPI in D minor.  Once the LH voice enters at bar 3 everything simply falls apart.  Over the years I've tried every conceivable method to try to learn this piece but failed miserably. I can't see myself being ever able to play a fugue. :( :crying: 


  • 0

#6 LoneM

LoneM

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 615 posts
  • Member: 894763
    Joined: 24-November 15

Posted 31 August 2020 - 09:45

Bach is notoriously difficult if you haven't yet wired your brain and fingers to manage counterpoint. The 2- and 3-part Inventions are a good introduction but you should also look at other composers such as Pachelbel. He wrote quite a lot of attractive 3- and 4-part fugues for organ but manuals only, which are short and much easier than Bach's.  Or look out for bicinia, baroque 2-part pieces, which might be a welcome addition to the 2-part inventions. All of these will be available on IMSLP.


  • 0

#7 Ligneo Fistula

Ligneo Fistula

    Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1511 posts
  • Member: 529803
    Joined: 28-September 12
  • United Kingdom

Posted 31 August 2020 - 12:13

Thank you, LoneM.


  • 0

#8 agricola

agricola

    Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1859 posts
  • Member: 545
    Joined: 01-February 04

Posted 23 September 2020 - 12:34

Telemann's Easy Fugues and Little Pieces are also a good introduction to counterpoint, much more approachable than JSB.


  • 0

#9 SingingPython

SingingPython

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 726 posts
  • Member: 406151
    Joined: 15-February 12

Posted 23 September 2020 - 15:14

Good luck, hope you find the right pieces to make the links to make more possible.  I too recall learning some inventions first, then a 3 part fugue with great care (probably Bk 1 No 2?), then at least one more 3 part before I tried a 4 part.

 

"Wiring" is definitely part of it.  My somewhat freakish son got along with fugues rather well from his first introduction to them - for a while he found preludes a lot harder than fugues, which I really struggled to understand!  We all know about half of book 1 very well now though - his organ teacher had the bright idea of suggesting he work through it systematically over lockdown which was lovely.  I think he's glad to be back with organ access at school now though!


  • 0

#10 fsharpminor

fsharpminor

    Maestro

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18302 posts
  • Member: 7089
    Joined: 07-June 06
  • Heswall, Wirral (originally Keighley, Yorks)

Posted 23 September 2020 - 15:17

Being an organist as well as a pianist, we can play one part with our feet !!  :lol: . Some failry easy ones in the Eight Short P&F's but they are probably not by Bach but ascribed to him.    But I do play about half of the Well Tempered Klavier ones too.  Easiest  Book 1 fugues 5, 6 and 11. My personal favourite is No 14 (F#minor !)  in book 2 but it is an LRSM one , so one of the hardest.


  • 0