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Recorder Thread!


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#3556 elemimele

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 06:10

This is most worrying, Zixi. I'd never heard of Diabelli and Carcassi, and Wikipedia tells me it's because neither was born until after the End of the Musical World (around 1750). But they're both quite decent composers and I rather like Diabelli, having listened to a couple of bits of YouTube. I may be forced to rethink the timing of the End.


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#3557 Zixi

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 06:49

I hope you don't mind that I bask in having introduced you to people you didn't know. smile.png I am always in awe of the breadth and depth of your musical knowledge.  Carcassi composed lots of little pieces designed as exercises for his guitar students. I love these pieces. They're very musically satisfying and at my level, they expect dexterity both in sight reading and fingering. I didn't know Diabelli at all but my husband recognised him at once and enthused.


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#3558 elemimele

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 10:46

oh, I am not so knowledgeable. I just use Wikipedia too much. No, I very much appreciate being introduced to someone new, and I also love listening to guitar, so it's a double win for me.


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#3559 Zixi

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 10:18

It's a lovely instrument. Do you play guitar at all? My husband does but I could never get on with it. My teacher tends to give me a few new pieces each week -  this week is Purcell and Leopold Mozart. But I'm doing some Latin as well and that is proving a challenge just now. I have to do something with it as I confidently told teacher that 'strong rhythms are easier'... And this is a new book I bought for just that reason. I've been unwell the last two lessons so haven't practised as much as I would like so I think the next lesson I should say that I worked very hard and not give feeble unwell excuses. rolleyes.gif


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#3560 Maizie

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 15:01

Just put my A=415 descant in the post (well-padded, tracked and insured!) to the Early Music Shop's Used Instrument Agency.  I hope it finds a nice home.  It spent all its time looking at me to make me feel guilty for never playing it, so I thought moving it on the right thing.

It has a new home!  Thanks to price increases, it sold secondhand for more than I paid for it new - not that I got quite that much after EMS took their cut, but very happy for it to have a new home and me to have some unexpected income :D


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#3561 elemimele

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 13:50

Recycling in every good sense. I'm glad it has a new happy home.

I've been listening to Jean-Pierre Rampal's recording of the Telemann flute fantasies. It's interesting and eye-opening from so many points of view.

It's interesting to hear the music played on a flute - and a modern flute, at that - instead of recorder. Flute ought to be better, being the instrument for which the pieces were composed, but I think the little dance movements sound better with the natural danciness and lightness of a recorder. It is easier for a recorder to play in this sort of style in a joined-up yet light manner. Flute, on the other hand, is much more powerful in the lower notes, which brings out something different in the sections where the music is simulating two parts.

It's interesting to hear the music played by someone who was a pioneer, rediscovering Baroque flute music. His technical skill is enormous, and his musical taste super-developed, but so many decades later, would we play the same way?

Mostly it's eye-opening just to see an interpretation by someone with so much to say. He plays the first one soooo fast, to such an extent that for a few seconds I felt wrong about it, but then realised it changes it from a technical exercise in arpeggios to something that flows like a happy, excited brook. He does wonderful things with repeats - and his phrasing brings life to the longer bits. Also, his phrasing is very recorder-friendly. Flute may take more air than recorder, but he can apparently play without breathing, which means his breathing-spots are doable by an amateur recorder person.

Now I want to find a good, modern recording on a Baroque flute, to see how much difference that makes...

Who cares what these fantasies were written for, they sound lovely on a recorder too, just so different. I suspect a Baroque flute version will be somewhere between Rampal and Recorder. The best music (nearly) always admits of multiple interpretations.


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#3562 Maizie

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 14:07

When we couldn't find recorder recordings, previous recorder teacher would always point me at Barthold Kuijken as an early music/early flute person. Might be a name to start searching with...

 
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#3563 andante_in_c

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 17:41

The baroque flautist I would recommend  is Rachel Brown. I haven't heard her recording of the Telemann Fantasias, but her Quantz recordings are superb.

 

I have a very interesting recording of the Telemann played by Robert short-for-Richard (Forum nannybot doesn't allow his name - for a while on here he was known as Robert He-who-shall-not-be-named ;)). He uses a variety of flutes including piccolo and bass flute, which gives a completely different feel to the pieces.

 

I tend to play the Fantasias on voice flute rather than the treble transposed version. Of course that means some of the harder ones on treble become easier on voice flute and vice versa - it all depends how easily the key falls under the fingers. I do hate the teeth-knocking-out ones with the top F#s in them (treble version).


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#3564 elemimele

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 06:17

Thanks, loads, Maizie and Andante-in-C for the two-and-a-half-and-a-clue names (the nannybot is sometimes highly annoying). I've found a recording by Maizie's and will look for he-who-shall-not-be-mentioned.

I had got as far as noticing that there were some F#s so I'd decided to ignore those fantasies, and also the ones that start in large numbers of flats, because adding another three just got too confusing for me. What do you do when you play them on a voice-flute? I'd assumed the problem would still exist, but you'd be playing in the original key? As a matter of curiosity, did you learn to read the fingerings as "correct" notes, or do you do the read-it-as-bass-clef-add-three-flats-and-use-treble-fingering trick? Learning another fingering would be a bit of a pain, but it would make the umpteen flats ones a good bit easier.

The Barthold Kuijken version (I haven't listened through all of it yet) is beautiful, and I think much better than Jean-Pierre Rampal's (stunning though that is). It feels more "right". It is lighter, clearer with only carefully-deployed vibrato, and the dance-tune bits are dancy. These really are lovely pieces.


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#3565 Bagpuss

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 07:17

Patrick Gallois recorded the fantasias when he was very young - just fresh out of the conservatoire I think. Modern flute but with the most amazing baroque sound. Exquisite. My own interpretation of these wonderful pieces on both flute and alto recorder were heavily influenced by him and, of course, my recorder teacher, Piers Adams. Piers taught me from day one to think out of the box and I hope one day I'll get the desire to start playing again. Off-piste a little, Gallois went on to record Mozart with a baroque twist - very creative stuff indeed.
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#3566 elemimele

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 06:17

Thanks Bagpuss, I've found a couple of videos of him, and he's wonderful. I think I may have to start making Birthday/Christmas lists of recordings... 


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#3567 Bagpuss

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 18:18

He's just :wub: :wub: :wub:

I think he more or less ditched playing to concentrate on conducting but it's the most 'effortless' playing I've ever heard. Tops.

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#3568 elemimele

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 18:55

Yes, that's precisely it. There is real charm in music played so that it feels natural, bubblingly easy. It's particularly right for these pieces, which somehow alternate between an expressive fantasy with the feel almost of improvisation, and sudden bursts of light, effortless danciness. Listening, if I didn't know how hideously difficult it is to play these well even on my nice, familiar recorder, I'd rush off and take up flute! He's inspirational.

It's also fascinating what different really good professionals do - they all bring something special, but different. Telemann ought to be pretty chuffed.


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#3569 anacrusis

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 20:00

*reels back into thread*

ooooft

five weekends in the last six have been recordery ones now - local group's concert, SRO concert(in Aberdeen), renaissance group tuition (in Dollar), rehearsal for Arden (in Rugby) and two concerts in Germany with the Arden.... and whilst away in Germany got sent some material for an extended techniques session in a couple of weeks :o 

All lots of fun - the nice thing about the Arden is that they have music-school teacher contacts in Germany, so our concerts there involve local music schools working with their primary-school-age recorder players on a few pieces (three this year)... then we all come together, the Arden having also prepared enough material for a full concert, rehearse with the kids, then present a programme to an audience. Twice.  The music schools have no direct equivalent in the UK - they're not conservatoires, rather places that kids can go and learn to make music from primary age on - there's no music tuition within the normal schools, but this provides it for those who want to. Although there's a cost, I understand that it's rather less than it would be for private lessons, and the kids have the bonus of getting to make music together too. Our first concert was at Bermatingen, in a Saxon church, blissfully cool given the 30ºC heat outside, and the audience almost filled the building. The kids played mostly simplified parts, but for all that, I was so impressed with them all - they could follow a conductor, and coped admirably, they made a really very reasonable sound, some way away from the normal torture tone we might expect from youngsters. The acoustic of the church was wonderful, and the audience generous with their applause. The next day, we did it all again, this time at one of the afore-mentioned music schools, drier acoustic, but the kids relaxed into their familiar environment, and apart from some appalling tuning struggles on my part :ph34r: it all went well again. The kids all lined up afterwards to "have a shot" on one of the Küng contrabasses - it was lovely seeing them so engaged and enthusiastic, and even the mums and dads were careful not to baulk visibly when we told them they could acquire such a musical tree for a handsome collection of Euros :D 

I wish there were an equivalent arrangement of music tuition for kids in the UK - these were not big communities, but they value their culture and think it worth investing in ... 


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#3570 andante_in_c

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 15:37

That sounds lovely, anacrusis, and I enjoyed seeing pictures and reports on Facebook. I can't remember following Arden on there, but I must have done at some stage. I know quite a few of the members. :)

 

On another topic, I am toying with the idea of taking an ARSM on recorder. I did start working for a DipABRSM a while ago, so have a good selection of pieces already. I've just played through a potential programme and reached 30 minutes before I started my last piece, so something will have to go (or be substituted for a shorter piece). I've bought a couple of things from the current Grade 8 syllabus that I didn't have, so lots of possibilities.

 

Anyone got any favourites from the repertoire list?


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