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Calling All Those Who Care.....


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#136 musicalmalc

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 10:27

Not sure what the issue is with careers advice before making your GCSE exam choices at 14. I was in the last couple of years of 'o' level and we had hopeless careers advice but we did have an evening when many large employers (most of whom still ran internal training schemes, long since gone) manned stalls with information about a range of jobs (seem to recall Halifax and BBC). That gave some indication to assist subject choices to continue to 'o' level and consideration of 'A' level choices or what subjects would give you a shot at a decent apprenticeship - the proper 5 year ones!

 

Personal career advice came down to filling in a questionnaire which was analysed by computer and spat out a handful of suggestions.

Surprisingly I found my result of that a while back and it suggested accountancy or computer programming - I ended up as a mainframe programmer for 20 years and I've been a software tester for 10 years so perhaps it was more accurate than I gave it credit for.

 

Certainly no job experience opportunities unless you knew someone who could fix it for the summer holiday.


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#137 Aquarelle

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 11:14

Not sure what the issue is with careers advice before making your GCSE exam choices at 14. 

 

 

 

I don't think there is an issue at that stage. By then teenagers should be thinking at least about the general direction in which they want to go. But there is an issue with careers advice at the primary school stage because it's something that age group are not ready for. There are exceptions, of course - like a girl who has known from about the age of seven  that she wants to be vet and who is now working towards that  aim but they tend to be the exception rather than the general rule.


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#138 Vicky Violin

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 13:10

I remember doing some computer career guidance questionnaire when I was in the sixth form.  I remember it vividly as the career options it suggested for me were stage manager or window cleaner - very specific!


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#139 Aeolienne

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 15:45

I am not for career guidance in primary schools. It is far too early. What I am for is widening pupils' horizons. Many of the children I currently teach have no idea of the range of different ways in which adults can earn their living. They shouldn't be confined to seeing the future with tunnel vision, knowing only what their parents and other adult members of their family do for a living, or what work happens to be available where they live. Girls in particular need to have an idea of what the future could hold for them. I am for children having a wide variety of role models - and at least some heroines and heroes  - so that they can not only have high expectations of themselves, but also the right to dream.

 

Widening pupils' horizons is what career-related learning in primary schools (to use the proper terminology) is intended to do. I reproduce a slide from a presentation I attended yesterday:

What do we mean by CRL in primary?

 

“Career-related learning is not about asking eight-year olds what they want to do in the future - children must be allowed their childhood… It is work that builds on children’s growing awareness of themselves and the world of work, and weaves what they know into useful learning for now and later” Watts (2002)

 

 

Career development is a maturation process that begins very early in life. It refers to the ongoing process of a person managing their life, learning and work. It involves developing skills and knowledge that not only equip children for the next stage of their lives, but also enables them to plan and make informed decisions about education, training and career choices.

 

We have used the phrase 'career-related learning' as it includes early childhood activities in primary schools designed to give children from an early age a wide range of experiences of, and exposure to education, transitions and the world of work. It also aligns with the terminology used in existing literature and guidelines and was confirmed through interviews with schools involved in this research.

 

Footnote: The concept of careers in the primary school phase typically provokes a cautious reaction. Terms such as ‘careers learning’, ‘careers education’ or ‘careers lessons’ are often conflated with careers guidance which is often understood to be focused on careers choice. Many parents and teachers have concerns about directing children towards a particular career or job at a time when their aspirations should, rightly, be tentative

 

 

The opening slide of this presentation is also worth quoting:

Early years matter

 

 

Concept of self

  • Age 6-8: Children grasp the concept of a set of behaviours belonging to each s€x and therefore begin seeing jobs and future pathways as intrinsically gendered.
  • Age 9-13: Children begin to see their social value based on perceptions of social class and intelligence. By this age children abandon ‘fantasy’ careers associated with the very young and start to become more aware of potential constraints on their futures.

Stereotypical views

  • By the age of eight, girls and boys routinely develop gendered ideas about jobs and careers, with long term implications.
  • Children come into schools with assumptions which have emerged out of their own day to day experiences: experiences which are routinely shaped by ideas surrounding gender, ethnicity and social class.

Aspirations

  • You can’t be what you can’t see
  • Impact of structural factors such as family and the immediate surroundings on who children want to become

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#140 ejw21

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 16:33

Thanks Aolienne, very interesting post. I'm not an educator so it's interesting to hear at what age gendered ideas about jobs and careers (or any other stereotype) start being formed as well as how this can be countered.


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#141 Cyrilla

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 22:13

Something that does bother me is that a lot of people seem conditioned into thinking that they must stick to one career for life.

 

I made a change after 11 years of class teaching although it was still teaching that I did - but I went off on quite a different tangent - different ages, stages, subject, setting etc.

 

Bagpuss has made much bigger changes :wub: and I know of many people who have switched careers either dramatically (my favourite headline ever was 'Lawyer Turned Human Cannonball laugh.png) or less so.

 

If you've never read (or heard him speak about it) Sir Ken Robinson's 'The Element' then please do so!
 

:wub:


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#142 Aquarelle

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 17:09

Aolienne thanks for that very interesting post.


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#143 Aeolienne

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 10:43



Thanks Aeolienne, very interesting post. I'm not an educator so it's interesting to hear at what age gendered ideas about jobs and careers (or any other stereotype) start being formed as well as how this can be countered.

 

Perhaps unsurprisingly, these trends continue into secondary school:

The university and occupational aspirations of UK teenagers: how do they vary by gender? (Institute of Education, UCL)


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#144 Aeolienne

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 12:48

 


[devil's advocate]Could this be a change for the better? One thing that caught my eye was this bit: "The move has caused alarm among climate campaigners and scientists who say teaching about climate change in schools has helped mobilise young people to be the most vociferous advocates of action by governments, business and society to tackle the issue." But isn't the overemphasis on mobilising young people part of the problem? However vociferous they may be as advocates, they are not the ones in a position to make purchasing decisions on houses, cars or electricity suppliers. Isn't there a real danger of creating a generation of ultimately frustrated and disempowered individuals? Cynical I know, but I can't help notice how every few years a new generation of youngsters "discovers" the climate issue and insists that they are uniquely the generation that will bear the brunt of its consequences and/or be in a position to solve it - notwithstanding the fact that this said issue has been around for nearly 40 years. [/devil's advocate]

 

(emphasis added).

 

Case in point: When did moral clarity become radical?

The Green New Deal has been called a political “loser.” But back in 1988, both parties saw climate legislation as sensible. (New York Times)

And I wonder how Greta Thunberg hopes to succeed where Severn Suzuki evidently didn't.

Two young climate heroines: Greta in Poland in 2018 and Severn in Rio in 1992

Plus ça change.


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#145 zwhe

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 22:34

The cynical side of me wonders if politicians are inviting these children to speak because they CAN dismiss them - they are children, so what do they know? If they hear the children speak, they don't need to invite the experts to say the same thing, so they can continue doing nothing about it.


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#146 kenm

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 20:36

As a member of the Rogers Commission into the Challenger disaster, Richard Feynman found the Chairman, aided by most of its other members, doing his best to cover up the actual reason for the failure, and memorably demonstrated the lies the Commission had been told about the seal that failed: he flattening a section of it in a pair of pliers, cooled it in a glass of water and ice, and showed it to the meeting, failing to recover the elasticity it need to work properly.  He wrote, in his appendix to the Commission Report (which was added only after he threatened not to sign it), "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."

The source of the Challenger disaster was the wilful disregard by NASA managers of the advice of their engineers.  Replace managers with Ministers in a democratically elected Government and engineers with climate change advisers and you have a recipe for acceptance of the impossibility of attempting to reduce carbon dioxide emissions to zero by 2025, because it would lose the next election.  Unfortunately, this may turn out to be equivalent to enjoying our comfortable lives at the expense of condemning the young of today to a miserable maturity and their descendants to the violence and starvation that will accompany the failure of human civilisation.  On this scenario, in a few more centuries, all life on Earth will be extinct except the thermophiles near the deep sea hydrothermal vents, who are likely to survive until the oceans evaporate.

Successive climate models of increasing sophistication have, more often than not, given higher estimates of the speed of global warming.  We must hope that current forecasts are too high and that the trend will reverse, either by the discover of new natural mechanisms that will alleviate warming, or reduced estimates of the contribution of known mechanisms, such as methane dissolved in arctic tundra or under the ocean floors.


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#147 Aeolienne

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 22:04

 

 

[devil's advocate]Could this be a change for the better? One thing that caught my eye was this bit: "The move has caused alarm among climate campaigners and scientists who say teaching about climate change in schools has helped mobilise young people to be the most vociferous advocates of action by governments, business and society to tackle the issue." But isn't the overemphasis on mobilising young people part of the problem? However vociferous they may be as advocates, they are not the ones in a position to make purchasing decisions on houses, cars or electricity suppliers. Isn't there a real danger of creating a generation of ultimately frustrated and disempowered individuals? Cynical I know, but I can't help notice how every few years a new generation of youngsters "discovers" the climate issue and insists that they are uniquely the generation that will bear the brunt of its consequences and/or be in a position to solve it - notwithstanding the fact that this said issue has been around for nearly 40 years. [/devil's advocate]

 

Five years on, the young'uns want to "change the curriculum to make the state of the environment an educational priority".

School pupils call for radical climate action in UK-wide strike

Plus ça change.

 

And now... https://www.positive...hange-teachers/

 

Although according to this, the first country in the world to make climate change lessons compulsory is ... Italy! https://www.independ...n-a9187216.html


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#148 Aquarelle

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 04:08

 they are not the ones in a position to make purchasing decisions on houses, cars or electricity suppliers. Isn't there a real danger of creating a generation of ultimately frustrated and disempowered individuals?

 

 

No, they are not. But they will be.


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