26 replies to this topic

[Ligneo Fistula]

In the 2017 Regulations, Regulation 3(a) states "...A candidate aged 18 or over who submits an
entry is the Applicant for that entry.", and Reg. 3(e) "ABRSM does not check the identity of Applicants and therefore it cannot verify degrees or qualifications of Applicants appearing on the certificates it issues."

 

I'm really surprised by this! Maybe I'm just naive. Then again, I suppose there's not much call for or utility in music exam (theory or practical) fraud.

[sbhoa]

Doesn't this mean that they are clarifying that they don't check teacher credentials as the applicant is often the teacher?

The applicant is the person who submits the exam entry and the candidate is the one taking the exam.

[Ligneo Fistula]

Doesn't this mean that they are clarifying that they don't check teacher credentials as the applicant is often the teacher?

The applicant is the person who submits the exam entry and the candidate is the one taking the exam.

Perhaps I should have prefaced my diatribe with a clarification that my focus was on candidates who are also applicants.  My apologies.  Never mind, it's hardly the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[sbhoa]

 

Doesn't this mean that they are clarifying that they don't check teacher credentials as the applicant is often the teacher?

The applicant is the person who submits the exam entry and the candidate is the one taking the exam.

Perhaps I should have prefaced my diatribe with a clarification that my focus was on candidates who are also applicants.  My apologies.  Never mind, it's hardly the Cuban Missile Crisis.

 

So if you are a candidate who is also an applicant and you want to claim any false qualifications to have in the 'presented for exam by' space they aren't checking...

[mellyna]

I registered as an applicant this year to enter one of my children before I realised she could enter through our local music service. But if I were to say sit my grade 7 piano, I would be both applicant and candidate but use my married name as the applicant as that's what I used to register and my maiden name for my candidate details just because I would prefer all my certificates to have the same name. I have formal identification in both names too. 

[linda.ff]

I'm slightly surprised they don't check the identity of the candidate in grade 5 theory, as a fair amount of progress in the practical exams hangs on (someone) passing it.

[Aquarelle]

I can understand that a need might be felt for identification for diploma level exams but I think it would be too complicated to extend this to Grade exams, even just Grade 5 theory. This exam is taken in many different countries who all have their own systems of identification for adults and minors and I think it would be pointless to try to cope with that.

[linda.ff]

LCM ask for ID even from the pre-prep, although for children they will usually accept the endorsement of the teacher or the parent. But here we've been told it's advisable to show the passport! Last time I took a written exam (GCSE Modern Greek, 12 years ago) I was told to bring photo ID of some kind to the written exam or I might not be allowed in. This was because although I took it at a sixth-form college, there were several different subjects going on, and many candidates, like me, came from evening classes. College students all had a college ID ready prepared.

 

Surely every country has some sort of photo ID? Then it's a simple matter of having the steward responsible for checking it at grade 5? 

[sbhoa]

LCM ask for ID even from the pre-prep, although for children they will usually accept the endorsement of the teacher or the parent. But here we've been told it's advisable to show the passport! Last time I took a written exam (GCSE Modern Greek, 12 years ago) I was told to bring photo ID of some kind to the written exam or I might not be allowed in. This was because although I took it at a sixth-form college, there were several different subjects going on, and many candidates, like me, came from evening classes. College students all had a college ID ready prepared.

 

Surely every country has some sort of photo ID? Then it's a simple matter of having the steward responsible for checking it at grade 5? 

We don't have photo ID as standard in the UK. All this ID for things excludes a lot of people. Some even have tremendous difficulty in opening a bank account!

A young adult living with parents who doesn't drive or travel abroad may have no sort of identification.

I do have a passport but I object to the requests for photo ID as I wouldn't have any unless we'd chosen to travel abroad. My driving license is a paper one only and all utility bills are in my husband's name. There's also the problem with many people changing to paperless billing. That means that we have fewer forms of identification available.

[elemimele]

We live in a country where our politicians are too busy groping their interns to organise a decent photo-id system. If we ever get one, we'll no doubt have to pay £95.50 for it (in addition, of course, to the taxes we already pay) and fill out a 34 page application form in official patronising English, submitted with a holographic photo precisely 32 by 356mm of the back of our head while not smiling with our hair standing on end, certified by someone with an approved degree in floristry.

And of course we live in a country where far too many people firmly believe that an ID card is actually a covert way for "Them" to keep an eye on "Us", and the beginnings of Big Brother Society, or maybe a Plan to give up all power to Brussels.

All in all, we're doomed to the current mess where people who can't afford a car or a holiday are obliged to pay for a driving licence and a passport in order to have a bank account, and public institutions are relying on gas bills as proof of identity.

It's basically totally rubbish social administration.

 

(sorry, you'll guess I'm having a bad day, and feel strongly about this)

[Hildegard]

All in all, we're doomed to the current mess where people who can't afford a car or a holiday are obliged to pay for a driving licence and a passport in order to have a bank account, and public institutions are relying on gas bills as proof of identity.

It's basically totally rubbish social administration.

 

Sorry you've had a bad day. For most banks only one from a choice of 16 different documents is needed for proof of ID, so no need to pay for driving licences or passports, and similarly for proof of address (gas bills are not used as proof of identity, but proof of address - again, many other things can be used instead, such as a student UCAS letter, benefit entitlement letter or even a letter from a parent/guardian who has an account at the same bank). For those who cannot provide any of the 32 possible documents, banks run a helpline to offer yet more alternatives.

 

Don't let them grind you down.

[linda.ff]

 

LCM ask for ID even from the pre-prep, although for children they will usually accept the endorsement of the teacher or the parent. But here we've been told it's advisable to show the passport! Last time I took a written exam (GCSE Modern Greek, 12 years ago) I was told to bring photo ID of some kind to the written exam or I might not be allowed in. This was because although I took it at a sixth-form college, there were several different subjects going on, and many candidates, like me, came from evening classes. College students all had a college ID ready prepared.

 

Surely every country has some sort of photo ID? Then it's a simple matter of having the steward responsible for checking it at grade 5? 

We don't have photo ID as standard in the UK. All this ID for things excludes a lot of people. Some even have tremendous difficulty in opening a bank account!

A young adult living with parents who doesn't drive or travel abroad may have no sort of identification.

I do have a passport but I object to the requests for photo ID as I wouldn't have any unless we'd chosen to travel abroad. My driving license is a paper one only and all utility bills are in my husband's name. There's also the problem with many people changing to paperless billing. That means that we have fewer forms of identification available.

 

https://www.citizencard.com/

[sbhoa]

 

 

LCM ask for ID even from the pre-prep, although for children they will usually accept the endorsement of the teacher or the parent. But here we've been told it's advisable to show the passport! Last time I took a written exam (GCSE Modern Greek, 12 years ago) I was told to bring photo ID of some kind to the written exam or I might not be allowed in. This was because although I took it at a sixth-form college, there were several different subjects going on, and many candidates, like me, came from evening classes. College students all had a college ID ready prepared.

 

Surely every country has some sort of photo ID? Then it's a simple matter of having the steward responsible for checking it at grade 5? 

We don't have photo ID as standard in the UK. All this ID for things excludes a lot of people. Some even have tremendous difficulty in opening a bank account!

A young adult living with parents who doesn't drive or travel abroad may have no sort of identification.

I do have a passport but I object to the requests for photo ID as I wouldn't have any unless we'd chosen to travel abroad. My driving license is a paper one only and all utility bills are in my husband's name. There's also the problem with many people changing to paperless billing. That means that we have fewer forms of identification available.

 

https://www.citizencard.com/

 

If something is necessary for normal life I don't expect to have to buy it!

The point is that photo ID is not something that we are all legally required to have so the only places where it can be required are the places that give it to those who are allowed to access wherever it is.

[elemimele]

Thanks for cheering me, Hildegard. I'll admit to a personal slant on this: my wife has managed to have none of the acceptable documents (she is a stay-at-home Mum receiving no benefits apart from child-benefit, and that won't do as a letter from a benefit agency has to be dated within the last 3 months). Fortunately she has had a passport so it's been a matter of renewing rather than starting from scratch. A surprising number of people, though, really do have no proof of identity whatsoever.

Linda.ff, I appreciate the link to the citizen-card; unfortunately it's not on the bank's list.

 

sbhoa, I agree completely with your logic. Apparently the government does not. Our bank's argument is that it's not their fault they're having to ask my wife to prove her identity (despite her having been a customer for more than a decade), but this is the result of "new government rules" that oblige them to have photo-ID of all their clients. So, in effect, according to the bank, we are legally obliged to have photo-id(*), despite the state not providing it. You are also quite right: the cost of being a citizen is paying taxes; that cost should buy us our ID card without it being an extra fee. 

 

I have to admit, though, that the citizencard looks like a jolly honest attempt of a bunch of organisations that are obliged to know the age of their clients, to plug a hole in the UK's administration. This quote from the gov.uk website sums it up:

 

Identity cards were scrapped in 2011 - they’re no longer valid and you can’t use them as proof of identify.

You don’t have to return your identity card. You should destroy it or keep it in a safe place.

The fee you paid won’t be refunded.

The government securely destroyed the personal details of everyone who had an identity card.

 

("We made you pay/lured you into paying. Then we took away the thing you paid for. We didn't give you a refund and won't. And instead of retaining any idea who our citizens are, we decided to throw away the data").

The UK's foray into identity cards was ill-judged, ill-conceived, ill-executed, and basically a mess. The fee back in 2011 or so was going to be somewhere between £30 and £60 per card, though rumours had it the system was so expensive that the true cost was around £300 per card; Linda.ff's CitizenCard is only £15.

 

(* edit: or be interacting with the state by post within the last 3 months)

[jim palmer]

The waiters at my local Portuguese cafe recommend a visit to Portugal, but I don't have a passport!

"No problem, all you need is your ID card"

A photo driving licence is no good it seems, though good for most purposes in the UK.