20246 replies to this topic

[Lemontree]

Hi Mel2, nope I cannot leave earlier. It's my working hours. I only can leave (earlier = forever) when my new business becomes a success story, and that's still to be seen. They advise against pepper spray here because it also can go very wrong with wind direction and so. I am thinking about a taser because of the security pins. But I have no idea yet how much one of those will be. But that whole situation is really blocking my creativity. I just finished one item today. It should have been more.

 

And yes, saying something against migrants very fast can get others to call you Nazi or racist here. I was raised liberal. I even considered gays to be normal at a time when even the two main tv stations weren't allowed to mention the word '6' at all publicly, and of course, beware, gays at that time weren't even allowed to exist anywhere. When finally the debate turned public I couldn't understand what's to discuss about it because it seemed so normal. One of my first books was called Oli Bear Gwama, about a black boy in Germany at a time when most kids didn't even know what a black looked like. But today, you cannot even say anything to your friends because they were involved in the "welcome" policy of our chancelor, while I was not and had my doubts right away due to the amounts of people involved and the cultural differences of those masses storming our borders with the majority being young men travelling alone who have a very different view of women than our culture. And as police admitted by now, for them it was called seeking sexual adventure, not rape or sexual harrassment, and media zensored. So what. It's considered okay, because of the different cultural views? It's so outrageous. I pay 50% taxes from my income. What are they doing with my money?

 

PS: One of my oldest friends (30 yr friendship) quit talking to me after I stated my concerns a couple of months ago. Guess what! She called two days ago!

[Splog]

Lemontree, it's a terrible situation. I've been reading about it here, and while you say no-one wants to talk about the race issue, another big criticism seems to be that no-one in authority seems to care about the women. You are absolutely right - you pay your taxes as a citizen and you are entitled to walk the streets unmolested. But you shouldn't have to buy a gun or anything else. You should be able to walk into a police station and ask for an escort home, or some other protection.

[hummingbird]

Lemontree, I don't know what work you currently do, but is there any chance that your employer could be persuaded to help in some way, eg by paying for a taxi.  I know of cases at one time here where nightclub or pub owners would make sure their female staff got home safely by hiring minibuses.  I'm not sure whether it still happens or not, as presumably these days they would have to do it for all their staff, not just the female ones.

[Splog]

Polkadot, what a wonderful signature you have.

[linda.ff]

Lemontree, I don't see the problem as being so much with migrants as with men - younger men in particular - and the way they are educated. Even in some strata of society in this country.

 

In Cambridge last year they took in a group of Libyan servicemen to train them at the army barracks just outside the town. They'd not been here five minutes before a group of them were arrested for sexual harassment and assault in the city and in a couple of cases for male rape (that one's odd, but it could have been the result of violence towards other males they perceived as being gay). The rest of the contingent was sent packing back to Libya. It may be too simplistic to say that they "didn't know any better" but to an extent I think this might be true. It's the way they have been educated to see women.

 

The migrant crisis is so awful for so many of them that it's terrible for some very bad behaviour on the part of some of them might make it worse for the majority. If there is to be any curb, it should be on young men travelling alone. Families, women, children, older men, they are the ones who need the help. Unfortunately the notion that migrants will help the country rests mainly on the influx of a largely male workforce, not the more vulnerable people.

 

Those young men are playing straight into the hands of Donald Trump, From Whom Heaven Protect Us.

 

Sorry, f#minor, TV, stetenorve, barry-clari et al, I hope you will understand I am not lumping together all men of whatever age, culture, inclinations or musical taste.  

[Lemontree]

Thanks for the vent. Out of just one item produced finally became five.or so. Admittingly, it's already 2:15 am. So, hush to bed for me. But at least I now can have a peaceful rest. It's funny how people in a forum in another country (or -ies) get what my own country(wo-)men seemingly don't.

 

And @linda, yep. They are playing that crazymen Trump right into his hands. If that happens than the whole world is in trouble. Pity is, that they don't grab them and send them back home. It takes months of bureaucrazy (pun intended) before anything happens and if anything happens at all. Just today I saw it published that in another town a 13 yr old girl was raped. And all they care about is not being racist instead of caring for the victims rights. Maybe I should build myself a submarine and dive. Wasn't there a story in a Jules Verne book about a city under the sea? By the way, male rape is in those arabic countries a version of humiliation for the party they see as weak and minor. Nothing to do with gay or not. Its a gesture of utmost dominance and superiority.

[Tenor Viol]

I gave some thought before replying to the recent postings here. First of all, sincere sympathy to @Lemontree for difficult and distressing experiences. I sincerely hope either your employer accepts some duty of care towards you or your local authorities accept that they have a problem to properly deal with.

 

With regard to other comments, all I will say is that we are risking another "McCarthy-ite" era caused by the 'group-think' of the PC fraternity which is stifling proper legitimate debate, which is needed. This failure to have proper debate is playing into the hands of the Trump chumps of this world and is amplified by some elements of the media. Because you cannot challenge the PC brigade without having the racist card thrown at you, it is preventing proper assessment of refugees/migrants (and the confusion of those two issues is another problem).

 

The blanket castigation and discrimination against single men is no more acceptable than one based on race, colour, religion, or orientation.

[dorfmouse]

Lemontree, I'm sending you a PM in a few minutes.

[linda.ff]

The blanket castigation and discrimination against single men is no more acceptable than one based on race, colour, religion, or orientation.

There's been no "blanket castigation and discrimination against single men"
 
You have left out a few more qualifying factors. First, the age. Second, the fact that they are travelling alone or at least out of the steadying influence of a family. And third and most important, they are from parts of the world where they are not only not educated to respect women in the way that most westerners are, but I suspect in some cases positively educated not to respect them.

 
I'm not sure what you see as the route to having "proper debate" - do you think this is not also happening? What is it that you see as playing straight into Trump's hands - the fact that /the attacks in Germany/ were /perpetrated almost entirely by younger men, mainly migrants, from north Africa and the middle east/, or the fact that anyone dared to correlate those two factors?
 
Of course the answer is better social education, particularly in certain parts of the world, and particularly of men and boys. So, in the meanwhile? The mayor of Cologne has been criticised for saying women should be more cautious, since they are not the ones committing the sexual assaults, but she's being realistic and practical. People shouldn't steal from cars - but if you left your car unlocked and a wallet on the front seat, it would be foolish, when you find it stolen, to say it's the thieves we ought solely to focus on, since you ought to be allowed to leave your car unlocked.

 

 

I'm also not quite clear about what line you are taking when you say "you cannot challenge the PC brigade without having the racist card thrown at you" - do you mean that it's legitimate to point out that these offences were committed by migrants - and yet you thing it's not legitimate to point out also that they were committed by men?

[Lemontree]

To compare womem's rights with unlocked cars is a little beside the point, isn't it? Or would you like to give up your right to vote, to have a profession also. Back to the apron? Back to a society were a woman only counts when she has a husband and kids (sons of course)? There is a start in everything going downhill. When you don't grasp it when it first occurs by the time the majority and the nicetalkers realize what's happening, it's already too late. I am glad of my rights. I am/was glad I could walk the streets without protection. I was glad I could seek my way into professional life and make a self-employed (at least partially, maybe in future completely) career. I CHOSE not to marry (mind, I had more than one marriage proposal), and chose a life making my own way instead with all the good and bad. I am glad of the rights I have. And women of past generations fought hard to achieve them. Comparing that to an car left unlocked is a not just a little beside the point. And these rights are now starting to be taken away piece by piece. Beware the beginnings! It almost compares to saying it's her own fault she got raped, she was wearing a skirt too short. Or in this case, because she wasn't wearing a burka. So the next step is to say that our western girls have to wear a burka so that they won't gat raped. Our western clothes might be misunderstood and of course we have to protect our female countrymen best we can, and that's the way to do it? Because that's what the Colone (female) major suggested - in it's beginnings as the next step to come.

[mel2]

Exactly. No one has a right not to be offended, but everyone has a right to go about their lawful business unmolested.
If these young single men have so much surplus energy they should use it to defend their way of life in their homeland rather than threatening the freedoms and security the host nation and violating innocent women.

[linda.ff]

To compare womem's rights with unlocked cars is a little beside the point, isn't it? Or would you like to give up your right to vote, to have a profession also. Back to the apron? Back to a society were a woman only counts when she has a husband and kids (sons of course)? There is a start in everything going downhill. When you don't grasp it when it first occurs by the time the majority and the nicetalkers realize what's happening, it's already too late. I am glad of my rights. I am/was glad I could walk the streets without protection. I was glad I could seek my way into professional life and make a self-employed (at least partially, maybe in future completely) career. I CHOSE not to marry (mind, I had more than one marriage proposal), and chose a life making my own way instead with all the good and bad. I am glad of the rights I have. And women of past generations fought hard to achieve them. Comparing that to an car left unlocked is a not just a little beside the point. And these rights are now starting to be taken away piece by piece. Beware the beginnings! It almost compares to saying it's her own fault she got raped, she was wearing a skirt too short. Or in this case, because she wasn't wearing a burka. So the next step is to say that our western girls have to wear a burka so that they won't gat raped. Our western clothes might be misunderstood and of course we have to protect our female countrymen best we can, and that's the way to do it? Because that's what the Colone (female) major suggested - in it's beginnings as the next step to come.

I have to confess that I haven't read every detail of the mayor's statement, and if she was saying the women were to blame, or they'd "brought it on themselves" then I'd agree with you. however, if there's a known and present danger, while we're trying our best at the same time to gradually lessen that danger, do you want to be the first one to defiantly walk straight into it? If there are places in some cities where it's considered not to be safe to walk alone at night, while any woman who was attacked there would not be to blame, and any attacker would be no less to blame, I would say that the woman would have been more prudent to acknowledge the risk and take necessary precautions.

 

And honestly, that is NOT to do with women's rights. It;s to do with "good people's" rights (making an extremely sweeping distinction here between good and bad people). So why doesn't it work the other way around? Well, to a certain extent it does in terms of male-to-male attacks, but it would be blinkered to suggest that it's just a social construct that female-to-male is proportionately extremely rare. So what we want is equal rights with bad people? I would not decide not to walk alone in a certain area because there might be men. It would be because there might be bad people, and what a woman probably has to fear most from such encounters means that those bad people would also be male.

 

It's exacerbated by the way males are educated in some parts of the world.

[Aquarelle]

Lemontree I am right with you.  I  have actually been surprised that no one here in France seems to comment on the fact that the migrants are in the very large majority young men. And I too have wondered, when seeing media reports about how  some of them have left families behind them, what are their real intentions. I don't actually know any young father here who would leave his wife, children and other family alone   in a war torn  country and seek his fortune elsewhere, leaving them to fend for themselves with the vague promise that they might be able to join him later. 

 

As people say, the situation started small and over the years has grown to imense proportions simply because it was not PC to open one's mouth. We left a vaccum into which the Trump chumps have gladly jumped. We have seen it in microcosm in the classroom where discipline was frowned upon and now we have the same thing on a world wide scale

 

The French media and politicians .are working very hard to stop the idea that the current situation is  a "war of civilisations."  because they are rightly terrified that it will degenerate into civil war. Only they don't seem to be doing much about making it quite clear that if you change country you have to accept the laws  and customs of your host country.

 

Genuine refugees should be welcomed and helped. Young men who wish to learn to integrate should be taught what is expected of them. Those who won't or can't adapt should be sent back.

 

 Linda, just a quick word about choosing or not choosing to walk alone in dangerous places. It isn't, as you say, just women. but women have probably more to lose than men if attacked. And it isn't always a qestion of choice.  In Corsica a short while ago it was the firemen who were  tricked into answering a call and then attacked. The Corsicans got out in the streets to protest - but of course the amalgams were made. I don't know what it's like in England but there are areas of some French towns owned by the drug barons and even the police won't go there. And that of course means no fire brigade and no medical services - because no doctor (man or woman) will call. And nothing is done about it.  The  problem is, of course, that  if reasonable,authoritiy is not exercised then the vigilantes will move in. Then we will have civil unrest and we risk civil wars.

[Violin Hero]

I reported last Sunday that I had injured right hamstring, playing squash. By today I felt so much better, with virtually no pain at all, that I had another go at playing squash. Unfortunately I lasted on a few minutes and the injury has returned and it feels worse than ever. 

 

I'm going to have to take the day off work tomorrow and may even need to get checked over by a  doctor or at least get reassurance I have not done any serious damage and it is just a muscle strain.

[Cyrilla]

Lemontree, a friend of mine in the USA posted a link to this article on facebook today - you might be interested to read it (as might others who have commented on Lemontree's plight):

 

http://www.nytimes.c...women.html?_r=1