Over the weekend I made a (rather poor quality) recording of my proposed ATCL recital pieces.

If people have some spare time I would be interested in hearing comments (not too rude please!). Please bear in mind that I was trying to play at the same time as sing, which I think explains most of the odd notes.

Does it seem plausible enough to aim at this for March/Easter time?

The first twenty minutes (you don't have to listen to all of it) is here:

It consists of the following (but not in that order)

Scarlatti Consolati e Spera
Handel Revenge Timotheus Cries
Bach Grosser Herr
Schubert In Der Ferne
Beethoven Adelaide
Debussy Beau Soir
Quilter Fear no more
Warlock Robin Goodfellow

Have fun.


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Had to remove the links for the moment. (Bandwidth exceeded!) It didn't occur to me that site had a low bandwidth allowance, I'll try and move them presently.

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Edit 2: Back online but now here http://rapidshare.com/files/162993269/REC08.wav

Hey Vectism, is it a technical critique you're looking for ?

Allan

There's sort of two questions:
1) Is the general quality of the sound at or around diploma level. (ie: the timbre and vocal production sort of things)
2) Any specific comments about the musicality. I know there are a few wrong notes, most of which were caused by me playing the wrong chord on the keyboard.

Or anything else you want to add. I suppose your technical critique might include comments on the musicality, eg: I'm looking at adding a bit of a flourish to the da capo in Revenge. Or it might include instrument technique, eg: the bottom notes in In Der Ferne sound a bit ropey to me, so I might need to alter the weight/support applied.

I'll be pleased to look at any constructive comments.

Thank you.

Personally I would think it is not the best idea to seek advice on a recording where you are also playing for yourself. Generally people do not tend to achieve the same vocal standard when they are also accompanying. Sorry - not a lot of help, just a thought.

OK, I see what you're after now. Well, in the sole objective of helping you get ready for your diploma, here's a list of comments that may or may not be helpful - please feel free to ignore them and please take it as it's intended - from one singer to another to help out a bit.

1) There seems to be a fair amount of upper-chest breathing going on - you need to check your support, your jaw (which sounds like it's jutting forward a little) and your neck (support your head with the muscles in the back of your neck, rather than the front).

2) You are consistently covering the sound with a very low larynx. Covering is not good. I know many teachers teach it, but generally it's because they don't know how to negotiate the passage otherwise. There are no outstanding classical voices that cover and darken the sound unless they are choosing to do so for a special effect in a song. So your larynx is too low and the voice sounds throaty and too muffled. Raising the larynx a little, removing the unecessary covering and getting richness from the coordination of the vocal chords and the oral cavity will do wonders for your tone and brilliance and also projection.

3) your placement is a little tentative. Every note sounds like a miniature messa di voce - attack the notes directly, landing on pitch and at the volume you require. Only crescendo if it's a musical choice.

4) you are lacking in projection at the moment - some work on that with your teacher would be a very good idea.

5) it sounds to me like your trying to do your vibrato from your diaphragm - don't. You can't control your diaphragm and you'll only end up with a wide wobble. The vibrato sounds uneven and consequently makes your pitch wobble quite a bit.

All in all, I think there's a good voice waiting to be brought forward, but it's going to take work to remove a lot of the stereotypical technique errors (overly low larynx etc) - however once you do that you'll be amazed at how free and powerful your voice will sound. Currently you're working way too hard for very little sound and it sounds like the whole thing is a bit of a struggle for you.

So if you have the time to dedicate to it, an outstanding teacher and the motivation to overcome your technical hurdles - I think there's a chance you'll be ready for the recital around Easter. On the other hand, it isn't currently at the level where I would feel comfortable advising you to enter for a diploma examination - but you aren't my student, of course!

It sounds like it's something you really want to do - if you haven't got a teacher or need some help with some technical issues, please feel free to PM me and we'll set up a short session on skype so I can show you a few things in person.

Good luck !

Allan

I think Allan you've touched on most of the things I would have picked up. I'd also question whether there is sufficient expression, and indeed variety of expression for songs at this level. Obviously on a recording, you can't see any facial expressions of suchlike, but for me I wanted to hear a more individual approach to each song.

David

Are you offering free lessons Allan? How do you get away with all of this advertising of your services here otherwise? I don't mean to offend but there is a no advertising rule here.

Yes, I've wondered that - many times!

Then again, perhaps he's paying the ABRSM commission?

In no way did I interpret Rosfrog's commments as soliciting for business, and I am surprised it has been suggested. He is in France anyway isn't he?

I'm perfectly aware that there's a no advertising rule, Petrat, thank you.

I've offered lessons about four times - which I don't feel merits 'all this advertising of your services' and, as I've pointed out many times. Yes, these interventions are completely free. Unlike those offered by other teachers at various points over the years. No one complained then, though... how strange.

If you'd rather I didn't offer free help to people, then of course I'll stop.

Perhaps you have something of use to say to the original poster too?

I think that Skype has been proposed as a medium....



If you really are offering free tuition, then that is very decent of you, and we have misunderstood you. But I have read postings of yours which have appeared to me to be soliciting for business.

I thought the title of this thread was Free Opportunity to Criticise Recording...

As I've said before, nothing gets past you, does it, Tiddles!

I've edited the initial post to remove the links, bandwidth exceeeded on that site, I'll get them moved in a day or two!

Yup. Misunderstood. Definitely free help being offered. May not have made that clear enough, perhaps, but definitely free - I've got more than enough students as it is !

I think some of this might be done to playing at the same time. I probably do need to try and stand prouder when singing.



This is the sort of thing that I think the recording is handy for, trying to make it a bit heavier sounds better in my head, so I will try a brightening and see how that sounds.


I'm not quite sure what you mean on projection here and I had to look up 'mesa di voce'. But I think these two might be related to the vowels vs consonants thread, ie getting off the consonant and straight onto the vowel fully without any ghost vowel inbetween, so I was trying that whilst playing for the GSS last night. _Some_ of the tentative issues might also be to do with trying to accompany at the same time, I wanted to do it that way as it was also a handy way of timing it by going through it all in one go without any breaks (except a couple of seconds when I turned the light on). _Some_ of the others might still be note issues, particularly in the Debussy and the middle section of the Bach.


In most places I think I can turn that off, although I haven't noticed the diaphragm doing anything particularly different. There might be some interaction between this and points 3 and 4.


I think some of that may be down to the quality of the recording, the voice comes over a lot more than the accompaniment. I think the choral society where I have to blast out the tenor section largely single handly would be a little peturbed at the thought of it being more powerful.


Is it a consideration when saying that that I only sorted out the repertoire two months ago?

Thank you for the comments there.

I've put it back online here http://rapidshare.com/files/162993269/REC08.wav

You couldn't possibly pop over to Swanage from the Isle of Wight every Wednesday evening could you?
Our musical theatre society needs you!
(If you also have an equally competent bass friend, that would be perfect )

I am my equally competent bass friend, I only sing tenor once a week, anything above an F is quite a bit of effort and either involves falsetto or over bearing can belto.

Might be a bit tricky for you to sing both lines at once though...

Maybe, it's not an easy task to do both at the same time !


Absolutely, the recording is a great tool for this. Our inner ear hears our voice very differently, so what sounds like a wonderful rich sound in your head can often sound muffled and unfocussed outside - conversely, just when you think you're making a really thin reedy sound, there's a chance you're filling the room with fab harmonics. It's unfair !



When I say projection, I mean that the voice doesn't carry - there are no harmonics in the 2,5 to 4Khz range (formant) which you'll need to carry your voice over an orchestra for example or to fill a large room - it's nothing to do with singing loudly though, it's to do with making sure those harmonics are present in the voice. The Italian school used to call it squillo. The Americans call it ring. It's that special brilliance that makes even PP sounds carry to fill a hall. Your projection isn't related to your vowels, but the messa di voce thing certainly is.


Probably - it's good that you can turn it off. I'd practise the songs without to be certain your pitch isn't wavering, and then put it back in afterwards.


It maybe down to the recording, but I was hearing some very specific physiolical issues (over a great voice, albeit) - these do need to be sorted out. Once again, power and volume are not the same thing - power comes from freedom and formant, neither of which I heard on your recording.


For me, it's not a consideration to be honest. If the issues were interpretive, then maybe the two month thing would come into play, but as there are underlying technique issues, these need to be sorted and aren't linked to when you started learning the pieces - it's the basic technique that needs fixing up.


You're welcome - I think you'll do very well once you stabilise your technique. Let us know how it goes !

I've added two more recordings of Adelaide which are a bit clearer to hear, these were Wednesday evening. One is in the key I'm aiming at F and the other is up at the original key of Bb

http://rapidshare.com/files/163635821/REC13.wav

http://rapidshare.com/files/163636004/REC14.wav

It occured to me that venue might make a difference, ie: I'm prepared to make a more expansive noise in church rather than in my small lounge - next seems to have a kid's bedroom on the other side of the wall!

As a comparison does anyone have a recording from around the time of taking a diploma?

I've listened to both of your new recordings and I'm still hearing (only more clearly) the same technical problems - the larynx is too low and closed in the throat, the false vocal folds are coming into play a little, there's no projection in the sound, the consonants are taking up too much space and there's frequently a small space between the end of the consonant and the start of the vowel, and the support is wavery with upper chest breath issues.

Like I said before, the low larynx is tricky because in your head it sounds really rich, but on the recording it just sounds muted and dull and won't carry.

If I can be brutally honest (and I'm saying this with the conviction that there's truly great vocal potential there) - the diplomas are the start of the professional levels of qualification and I don't think that your singing is technically assured enough to be ready to aim for that. If I heard you in a professional concert - or a high level amateur concert, I would be confused.

So if I were advising you as a teacher, I would tell you not to do your diploma until your technique has improved considerably.

Take the time to fix these problems, you'll have an excellent voice, though - I'm certain of it.

I have a few kicking around although I am not sure how useful you would find them (I'm a soprano). But PM me if you are interested.

The best opinion is usually that of your own teacher of course. If you don't trust your teacher's judgement a few festivals are a very good idea, both for other opinions of your standard and for developing stagecraft.

Its just interesting to get alternative perspectives on it, and from people with such diplomas, or teaching such diplomas. Other people I have mentioned this to just have straight music degrees.

Or take the AB Adult Assessment and the examiner will tell you if you are ready.

Its interesting having other people's perspective (without having to pay for it!)