My daughter learns piano as her second instrument. She doesn't do grades so I don't really know her level. She has played some of Debussy Children's Corner quite well and some of the simpler Chopin Mazurkas recently if that is any guide to her level. She is 13. We have an upright piano which we bought for about £3k 10 years ago.

We have been offered the loan of a very good piano (owner is at music college and her parents are moving to a smaller house and they need someone to look after it for at least 2 years 'till she has a place to keep it - and they would like it to be played). We can just about find a space for it but opinions in our house differ on whether to give it house room.

I would hope that my daughter might make a nicer sound on it than on the upright, but will it actually help her become a better player? Would she develop a better touch as a result, which would transfer to other "lesser" instruments? I could imagine that it might "spoil" her for an ordinary upright when it has to go.

A secondary question is, would it need more maintenance? Our current instrument gets tuned about twice a year and that's it. Would a really good instrument need more attention?

Is this a baby grand? If so, I think it could be very useful for your daughter. If she wants to enter for festivals or exams later on there's very often a grand piano, and they do feel a bit different to play because of the different height of the music desk, and the extra pedal. On the other hand, if her teacher has a grand anyway she will have enough experience through playing that.

I agree it might spoil her for the upright! But pianists need to be able to play on all types and qualities of piano, so it's all good experience. I don't think you'd have any more maintenance than on an upright, but housing someone else's instrument is always a bit scary as you feel it should be completely unscathed when you return it!

It depends on the player.
My piano teacher seems to think im talented at playing the piano, i have a cruddy piano, which would be better at keeping us warm, than it is for playing, but ive progressed in about a year (lessons on and off for about two years, having a huge gap whilst she did a PGCE) to grade three standard, so no i dont think it does, it depends on the teacher, the student, and a little the piano:

I would probably say a grand might need tuning maybe 3 times a year, if the lid is opened and closed alot, as the humidity the strings are in will change a fair bit, but it depends on the instrument.
I would go for it, if she wont mind giving it up in two years.

I'm no expert, but I'm not sure that it would actually make much difference.
One point of view is that if you have a not-so-good piano, then you often turn up to exams etc and play that much better because the piano is nice. Surely if you have an amazing piano that you use regularly you can only end up dissappointed and worse off when you have to play on a worse one?
I have a pretty old average piano, and before exams I try to give myself more confidence by thinking about how I will actually be able to play on a nice piano!

I don't think that a better piano makes you a better player. On the contrary, it'll help you appreciate piano so much more. I don't have the best piano (£160. It was taking up space) but i love it when i get to play a concert pitch grand piano (that only happens about 4 times in one year).

I have a friend who has unlimited access to a grand piano which is litterally tuned twice a month. When he comes to my house and plays my piano, he only complains about how terrible it is. I really like the tone of my piano. When someone who has grown up playing a piano which isn't nice comes over, they always comment on how nice mine is.

Of course, if i had the oppurtunity, i'd love to play a concert pitch piano once a week.

A nice black shiny one.

EDIT: I only just read tuba_george's statement, and i completely agree with it. That's exactly how i feel about exams.

A definite yes.

A good grand piano allows the player to explore a wider range of tone colours. The action is different, and there is the sostenuto pedal. As earplug's daughter is about to progress to an intermediate-advanced level, a good piano can only be helpful.

Do take up the offer of the better instrument if you can but take your daughter to see it and to play it first. She may love it but may not take to it at all. Pianos are like friends; some you will love and some you will dislike for no very good reason.
If your piano has never had any running repairs or adjustments though ask your tuner to check it over at his next visit and to regulate anything that needs doing. If it was a good instrument ten years ago it should be in decent order still. At ten years iit s a still baby in piano life expectancy terms.

Apart from feeling generally "different" most grand pianos have a slightly heavier feel than most uprights. They have a double escapement mechanism that allows faster repeats and also affects the feel. And - as is well known - the Una Corda pedal acts quite differently. also, many grands feature a Sonsenuto pedal - though it is not a fantastically useful device - and you have to be able to play without it in any case. Finally you tend to sit a bit lower, and the different location of the music rack can be disconcerting to someone that has only previously used an upright.

None of this makes a great deal of difference in learning to play - even at advanced levels. And above a certain minumum level any further "quality" (whether in grand or upright) does not matter much.

The main requirements of a practice piano are:

1. Being in good tune

It should be obvious that you need to consistently hear the correct tones whenever you strike the keys. Though learning to make a decent sound on an out-of-tune piano is a useful skill!

2. Having a well regulated action

This is extremely important. The essence of piano playing is controlling the volume of sound. The key only moves through about 3/8 to 1/2 of an inch and the "throw-off"point comes sooner than that. So you have to learn very precise control of the speed and weight of strike over a very short distance.

If different keys respond with different levels of volume it is difficult to learn this control.

3. Being well voiced

The quality of tone should be the same through out the range. This is determined by the felt on the hammers, its type, how well it was voiced initially (by skillful needling - DO NOT TRY THIS YOURSELF!) and how worn or compressed it has become

This affects the ability to produce different tone colours through a combination of touch and pedal. On an old or poorly voiced piano the tone tends to be harsh and difficult to control.

One advantage of a high quality piano is that it should be possible to tune it, regulate the action, and voice it to a more precise degree. A second is that having been thus set up correctly, it should be more durable - and stay in good shape for longer.

There is one more ... a good piano is so much nicer to play that it makes practicing a real pleasure.

There is one more ... a good piano is so much nicer to play that it makes practicing a real pleasure.

So true, MT! I know when I upgraded my piano 18 months ago, you couldn't keep me away from it! Practice was just so much nicer to do!

[quote name='Hannah74' date='Nov 10 2008, 11:43 AM' post='758493']
There is one more ... a good piano is so much nicer to play that it makes practicing a real pleasure.

Very true - I'm happy with my piano at home but, every other week, I get to play a fully restored Bechstein grand in a concert hall and it really is a pleasure. However, It has not spoiled my enjoyment of my own piano. Go for it.

I changed my piano about 6 months ago for a gorgeous little upright Bechstein, I think all of our playing has improved but with my daughters although they have always been good practicers they definitely spend more time on the piano now.

I also regularly enter students and myself into Cheltenham festival where they have a Steinway D, this piano can be very intimidating in itself, I have had a student freeze when confronted with the huge bass notes coming through, she was learning on a digital and only played my pre Bechstein crappy thing, so had never experienced anything like it. So my advise - if you have the opportunity of playing something amazing, go for it.

Not at the exam centre in Cheltenham, where the piano looks very nice but should, in fact, be taken out and burnt

My experience is that a heavier action is good for technique, because it increases the strength of the finger muscles. I own a Fahr baby grand, with a very light touch and slightly wider than standard black keys. It is now on permanent loan (where it is permanently "prepared" to play Cage's music), and I do my practice on a Yamaha electric piano with a much heavier action. As a consequence, I can now play on other pianos without being disconcerted by heavy action or narrower black keys. The differences between grands and uprights relate more to how one can interpret the music, though the height of the music stand on a grand may be disconcerting for anyone who relies on looking at their fingers.

I also think the keys on my Yamaha digital are quite heavy... when i can play a piece on this piano reasonably well, it does seem easier on an acoustic.

I'm not sure that having a very good instrument makes that much of a difference compared to having a merely good instrument, but having at least a good instrument is essential, whether you are talking about a piano, a guitar, a flute, a violin, a bass bazouki or even a kazoo: Come to that you might be talking about sports equipment, medical equipment, educational supplies: Almost anything.

The provision of good equipment & facilities does not guarantee good results. The lack of such provision pretty much guarantees poor results.

I don't know if it would help you learn, but if I had an absolutely lovely piano, it would definately motivate me to learn more

Thanks so much to everybody who has taken the trouble to respond. I came to the view that there might well be some benefit to her development in having the piano so followed it up. I had visualised in my mind something like a baby grand and had decided where we could put it.

So I found out the exact model and looked on the Steinway website and realised it is not a Baby but very much a Daddy Grand. I didn't realise anyone (apart from a millionaire or professional concert pianist would own such a thing). It would be amazing to have an instrument like that but we would have to get rid of our dining table and eat our dinner off it which I think the owner would object to. So I think it is going to have to find another home.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Oh what a shame, I'd love room for a really good grand piano but you have to accommodate family in the house as well.

I think it comes down to this......if you were given the opportunity to drive a clapped out old Ford Fiesta or a top of the range Aston Martin... I think we know which most people would choose. However, an Aston Martin is a "real drivers" car, and to get the best out of it, you probably need to be fairly confident about driving a "performance" car. But once you get the hang of it, and a taste for it - well nothing could be better!

So my advice would be to take every opportunity possible to play the best quality pianos you possibly can - it'll help you to further develop your "control" of the instrument, appreciate the differences between "inferior" and "top of the range" instruments, and how to get the best out of both!

I think it depends what's the problem with the not-so-good one. For example, if the pedal has to be pressed fully down to make any difference, then when you play a good piano, it will be a dreadful blurry mess. The other problem I've found is that my (reasonably good upright) piano's keys have a slow response to being played, making repeated notes and playing ornaments neatly difficult, although I've played lots of pianos that have it even worse.

Having said that, I have noticed that I'm finding it harder and harder to play bad pianos, or, in particular, digital ones, as most of the pianos I have access to are of a decent standard, but then I never really have a need to play them, so doesn't matter too much...

Also, if you have a grand piano, there's more of an incentive to practise because of the novelty value, although that would probably wear off over time.

Get rid of the family

I could provide a home for it ... and it would certainly get played

How long are they going for?



p.s. My piano teacher has TWO grand pianos in her (ordinary sized) lounge - a 1950's Steinway and a biggish Yamaha (I think it is the C5)

Not yet (nearly 6 months)!

I've had mine for about 4 years now and the novelty hasn't worn off , and I don't think it ever will. I love playing the piano, it restores my sanity after a hard day at the surgery.

While I definitely agree that having a 'good' piano makes practise much more enjoyable (and easier to begin in the first place), it can have its disadvantages when you are confronted with a mediocre piano in an exam. I'm only used to playing on my and my teacher's new pianos, so turning up at an exam and finding the piano is not nearly as good can be slightly disheartening.

Has anyone ever had a really nice piano in an exam? I've sat exams in a music shop which sold lovely pianos, but clearly they didn't want them used for exams and gave us a fairly standard one instead!