Has anyone seen the Dettol advert where the mum sprays Dettol on to the keys of the piano to kill all the cold and flu germs her children have deposited there when they've been playing? As I had one pupil yesterday who coughed all through the lesson (she did put her hand over her mouth when she coughed, but, of course then put her hands straight back on the keyboard) I wondered how everyone else cleans their keyboard, and what you think of spraying stuff, Dettol or otherwise, on the keys.

There's already a thread in the Cafe about this:

http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?showtopic=32982

This time of year you do start to worry a bit as pupils start to be struck down with viruses...

Hadn't seen it myself till last night. Some of the remarks in the thread talk about its effect on the keyboard, I noticed that the wood was getting it too!

Wonder how many parents will do this and then end up with damaged instruments?

I am a supplier of chemicals to Reckitt-Benckiser, who make Dettol products. I doubt there would be any damage by the prodcut to plastic keys, but ivory keys or wood would not benefit from the treatment!

I do use Dettol on my piano as it has plastic keys. I spray it on a piece of bounty, get the marks off, then using a well-rung out cloth rinse, then dry with more bounty.

The only time I tend to do thisn is if there is a tummy-bug in the the house.

There's no way I would spray any liquid [apart from a wipe over with a cloth lightly moistened with de-ionised water] on to the keys of my piano. It is highly unlikely, anyway, that anyone would be infected by any virus or bacteria coughed onto a piano key. I'm a doctor and I would not advocate the indiscriminate use of chlorinated xylenols and anioni/cationic surfactants as formulated into the Reckit products. You might just as well say you can be infected with HIV after sitting on a lavatory seat. The advert is aimed at generating fear, and judging by the comments here it seems to be succeeding.

I tend to agree about the use of anti-bacterial products on the piano (though with not a jot of scientific nous to back it up!) and use a slightly dampened e-cloth to rearrange the dust.


I'm curious as to why you use de-ionised water, though. Am I likely to be leaving a film of limescale in my tracks just using tap-water?

Mel

Sorry, I didn't know someone had posted the same thing in the Cafe, but I don't go in there very much so missed it.


Doesn't the coconut get down the sides of the keys? Sorry, jod, only joking. Yes, it was the spraying of the product that prompted my query. When I infrequently clean the keys on my piano, if I used Dettol, or any other spray I'd spray it onto a cloth first and wipe it over.


Although I don't consider myself gullible and would be more likely not to buy a product seen advertised the way this was, I must admit that after the child's lesson I did fetch some antiseptic wipes and lightly went over the keys - "just in case"

Ha ha! And the chocolate leaves some really horrible smears. My grandmother used to clean her piano keys by putting on thin gloves doused in vinegar and then playing a lot of notes. Stank the room out but did a good job - and isn't vinegar vaguely antiseptic too?

There is wood under the plastic though...

I am not a doctor, but there's plenty of evidence available that cold viruses can remain active for some time on hard surfaces - look here,, or just search on Google. As for the health of the piano keys - well, that's a different matter. But I'd be interested to see any research that you can cite that disproves the "cough onto key can't transmit" notion.

There is no hard scientific evidence!. What you are reading amounts to ill-informed, or otherwise, opinions. I don't want to digress into a major discussion on clinical microbiology in this ABRSM piano forum. If you care to pm me I'll get around to explaining things to you in non medical jargon.

Gosh Roger, I wish I had your way with words...

Send me a cheque for GBP5000 and I'll teach you

I'm the spouse of a nurse and I think you're probably wrong.
Can you give any references for your claim?

The comparison with HIV seems silly as it's very hard to get infected with HIV, but much easier to be infected by a host of other things.

Round Two...

I'm sure I've read that bugs can be picked up from hard surfaces. And I'm pretty sure I've experienced it personally before I vowed never again to touch my mouth, nose or eyes after playing the school piano before washing my hands, or at least using that antiseptic gooey stuff.

I read somewhere that hospitals concerned about nosococomial infections (I hope I've spelt that correctly) were replacing frequently touched hard surfaces with copper. The idea is that bacteria die more quickly when depositied on copper than on other metals and plastic.

Perhaps Roger could comment?

I have never been too fussy about cleaning the piano keys but I have recently found it distasteful to touch the keys after a child has spluttered and coughed into his hands and then placed wet hands on the keys. It might not be dangerous but it isn't pleasant.

I also find an increase in the number of children who do not seem to have been taught to cover their, mouths, wipe their noses and wash their hands. I don't know if other teachers have found this or if I am just getting more fussy!

Oh dear! There's one born every minute!!

What on earth do you mean by that?

Are you naturally offensive, or did you take lessons? All I can say is I'm glad you're not my doctor.

I don't want to get into the bug debate as such, but from a more chocolate / sticky sweetie point of view .....

I wondered if any piano teachers out there insist their pupils wash hands before starting their lesson........ or do you just not worry too much about it?

I remember as a child being made by my mother wash my hands before each time I played - and I have pretty much continued this habit to this day (but more perhaps to heat up my hands a little - a sign of increasing age and failing circulation perhaps!!!).

What do you do with your pupils?

Elizabeth

It doesn't usually occur to me to ask them to wash their hands - unless they come straight from school and are covered in red and green paint or mud from the sports field....

I only point them in the direction of soap and water if hands are obviously dirty or they arrive eating something. It's easy for me to do this as the piano is in the kitchen.

I tend to ask them to wash hands only if they are muddy or sticky - our downstairs cloakroom is handy just by the front door.

However, I am mildly surprised by the number of pupils who arrive with a sniffle and don't have a tissue. I find myself rushing into the kitchen to get our box of tissues from there (shall have to have a piano room box I think now we're well into winter). Then they look hopefully at me when they've used the tissue as though I'm going to take it from them!!!

Does anyone find if your hands are too clean it makes playing difficult ?

If I practise after washing the car my fingers tend to slide off the keys.

Yes, as I mentioned above, simple hygiene habits seem to be a bit on the decrease. I get the same hopeful look when I provide tissues. I simply put the waste bin behind the piano stool and wait for them to realise I am not going to dispose of the tissue myself. I also work in an infant class as a class teacher and I find children less autonomous that previously but I think it's because parents are pressed for time these days and simply do these simple tasks for the child instead of taking the time to show them what to do.

I find myself increasingly asking children to wash their hands before a piano lesson. I think it is only polite and considerate to arrive with clean hands.

Yes, I am sometimes a bit surprised at the state of pupils who arrive for lessons. And even, sometimes, at the state of the towel in our downstairs cloakroom after pupils have 'washed' their hands.

I am sometimes a bit ashamed at the state of my daughter's hands - or at least the way they look. I get her to wash her hands with soap before the lesson (sometimes even several times) so they are "clean" (in the sense that they are not going to leave traces on the keyboard) but she is the sort of child who has engrained ink and felt tip pen stains all over her hands so they invariably look dirty.

Kerioboe, I wouldn't worry. I reckon I can usually tell the difference between hands that haven't been washed all day and those with ink and paint that has resisted washing, and I bet other teachers can too.

Last year her teacher did send her out to wash her hands fairly regularly. Only after a couple of months did she seem to resign herself to the fact that washing them didn't make any difference (as I had apologetically told her the first time it happened).

I think that's got more to do with your hands/fingers being a bit dry rather than just clean. Try some non-greasy moisturiser - Neutrogena is good and doesn't smell girly!

(Would this be your Porsche you're washing, by any chance? )


Yes, that's always amusing. Er, no, I don't want your snotty tissue, thanks all the same!

I keep a box on the piano at all times, and it's well used (and not only by children!).

Too much information!

Only for people with your sewer-like mind...

And how would you know the first thing about my mind?

I'm a quick learner. Anyway, you're a man - that tells me all I need to know on that score.

In comparison to whom? Not to me, that's for sure!

I think there is only one thing to know so no need to specify "first"

Oh don't you start too!

Why? Are two girls too much for you?

Nope!

It just gets a bit tiresome...

True - I believe you started it though

But I certainly didn't mean it in the way Czerny seems to have read it, though. Crumbs, the way some people's minds work....

At least they do work...

Yes, but they seem to work along a single track - like yours!

Oh mine has many tracks - I just don't use them all at once in case other people can't keep up...

Now you're plagiarising what I've already told you before! How unimaginative!

Well they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery - not in this case though.

Yup, we could continue to drag this thread further and further off on a tangent, but that wouldn't be fair on other forumites reading this, so I'm going to resist the temptation to reply any further to what you post here. Sorry Carol. G.

Yes it is my Porsche I'm washing, and I'm not even using anything paticularly aggressive- I use Johnsons baby bath to wash the car which is really mild. I do tend to suffer from dry hands though- I'm a chemist so I wear gloves a lot at work.

Thanks for the apology, but I had already signed out by then and wasn't intending to post any further.