Help somebody.
My eight year old son had a trial for a trombone lesson yesterdayat school and have been asked to pay for some lessons - £41.75 per term for 10 minutes, or for 20 mins if sharing with another child (minimum of 30 lessons per calendar year).

I have been told by a friend that he might be too young. as he cannot reach the 7th position.

1 what do you think?

2. Do i hire a trombone for £45 per term and take out an insurance - extra cost to cover or do i buy a new or second hand one. Are whereis the best place to get it?


3. i have been told the tenor ones are best for beginners. Any reason for this

4. do trombones get easily disfigured or scratched etc. How are they looked after, since he would need to take it to school once a week - he is not very careful with his things - I'm worried

4. Would a private tutor - maybe twice a month be preferably as i am not looking at the moment for him to take any exams as he is sitting his piano exams next year. but as a hobby for now

5. are there anything else i need to be wary about?

Hi there, here's some answers for you:

1. Eight is fairly young for trombone, but you can get attachments to help you reach 7th position, and there are some smaller versions available. I started at the age of 8 but on baritone and then trombone a year or so later. So that is no problem. Just look at this years winner of the Young Musician of the Year for reference on starting Trombone at an early age!

2. Personally i would advise finding a local brass band, they normally have a starters band, and the instrument rental is exceptionally cheap usually (if not free) they'd also get a 1/2 hour to 1 hour group practice a week, and if necessary, you'll easily find an experienced private teacher to top this up. It would also give your child valuable ensemble experience. They could also change instrument easily if it doesn't suit them.

You could buy second hand or new starter kit from a local brass shiop, but renting would be easier until he settles on the instrument.

3. Tenor trombones are the standard in brass band and orchestral. Bass and alto are less common and are much harder to start off on, which is why tenor would be recommended.

4. Although it looks like they'd be hard to break, they're not! Especially as you tend to pack it away in it's case when you've finished with it! It is possible to dent them if you're not careful but this would be taken into account with having a student instrument. All in all they're fairly robust.

4b. See previous answers.

5. No. Enjoy! (Oh and if the noise starts to aggravate you, you can get practice mutes for about 20 pound or the Yamaha Silent Brass system to keep your peace & quiet)

If you need any other advise etc, let me know

Regards,

Chris

Just a few comments and supplements to Chris's good advice:

2. Ensemble experience is a strong point for the brass band; find out what the school offers;

3. Brass band sets always have a bass trombone part, in my experience, but even a "plug" tenor (with a valve to give the extra range of a bass part) would be too heavy for a 7 year-old;

4. Small dents in the bell may not need rectification; dents to the parallel tubes of the slide are disastrous and need immediate attention by an expert.

A new point: I would be interested in the reactions of trombone teachers to the idea that a beginner should learn trombone on a plug alto in Eb and Bb. Several such instruments are now available, and while many are specialty instruments for soloists, costing anything from 1250 to 2500 pounds sterling, I found one for 615 here. This would overcome the problem of length of arm while still giving nearly all the notes on a plain tenor.

Hi

I wouldn't think he'd be attempting to use 7th position for quite a while.

It's not really needed until he tackles AB grade 5 scales/arps (purely to get bottom B).although he may come accross it earlier.

Early School orchestral parts are often written in G/G with often only one bass part arranged for cello/bassoon/trombone with little thought given to the difficulty of the young trombonist, who would be much happier in Bb or Eb!!

Anyway I'd say go for it if that's what he wants to do.
Good fun...

Only prob I can see is the weight one.

Nowadays we think of the tenor trombone as a Bb instrument but some music historians have suggested that in the Renaissance its ancestor, the tenor sackbut, was not so regarded. They argue, on the basis of the balance point of surviving instruments and of iconography, that sackbuts were held with two fingers on the top tube in such a way that the slide could not be put into modern 1st position. They further argue that the instrument was conceived as being built in C because that was one of the notes obtainable at its longest (modern 6th position, these instruments having no 7th). The basic one-octave scale of C major would have been obtained from positions 6, 4, 2, 6, 4, 2, 4, 3.

My daughter started learning the trombone two years ago when she was nine and, although she is quite tall, she has relatively short arms. At 11 she can still only stretch to 5th position. She has a yamaha trombone with a valve for seventh position (and hasn't seemed to need 6th yet).

I thought (still think) that it is heavy to hold when playing but she has never complained about it. What she does find hard is carrying the trombone around in its case (it has a hard case) and this is proving something of a problem this year when she has started secondary school and has a school bag weighing about 12 kilos (but you are in the UK so your son's school-bag should be considerably lighter!)

Her trombone is rented from the music school - it was new when she got it and it still looks new. She was told to be careful to have the slide lock on and to avoid dropping the mouth piece but it seems fairly solid. There have certainly been fewer "hairy" moments with the trombone than there have been with the cello.

You didn't specifically ask this but I think a 10 minute lesson is not worth paying for. He would barely have time to get the instrument out and warm up before it was time to stop.

Hi there

My daughter also started learning the trombone "early on" (She was 8 and a half) ans started on a yamaha 354. It was actually really quite light. She had similiar problems to KerriOboe's daughter in terms of arm length but she didn't really need 5 and 6th position to start off with. She took her AB grade 2 about 6 months after starting (in March) and then Grade 4 the following term. She still didn't need 6th position.

She moved onto a "plug" trombone (Conn 88H) just after her grade 4 as she had been accepted into a national ensemble on trombone and was likely to need to be able to reach 6th and 7th. She has never complained about the weight of it and now regularly plays it for 2 hours at a time (in fact on her summer courses this year she was playing for around 6 hours a day.) She too has just started secondary school and is now taking her instrument in almost daily for orchestra, jazz band, symphonic winds etc and does find it heavy to carry on the bus (especially if she has got her P.E. kit too!) but she is coping, so I guess it depends on the child.

I wouldn't right off the idea of starting on an alto trombone - many music services start "little people" off with them as they are a cheaper alternative to "compact trombones" such as the one KerriOboe's daughter seems to play (Yamaha make a very good compact trombone but it is about £700). Actually the BBC young musician of the Year Pete Moore started off on an alto trombone and played that for about 18 months before moving onto a "regular" trombone. He also uses a cracking device made by Mick Rath that takes the weight of the instrument more when holding it (its kind of a hand brace). You can also get ergonomic trombones made by jupiter that are designed to distribute the weight more evenly and reduce the potential uncomfortableness of holding a heavy instrument.

My daughter too played for 6 hours a day at a summer course this year and didn't say anything about it having been too heavy to hold. Her only complaint was that the course only lasted for four days and not a week

I have just been and looked more carefully at what exactly it is and Kixmusic is right it is a yamaha compact trombone (YSL 350C). It is expensive - we were given it's price for insurance purposes and it was around 1,200 Euros. The music school bought the trombone for her as when she started the only trombone they owned was a very heavy one which her teacher thought unsuitable for her. Her teacher said that while this is a very good trombone for children to start on he would never suggest a parent buy one as it is meant for child beginners and your child is not going to be a child (or a beginner) for ever.

Going back again to the weight and the problem of carrying it. I think my daughter is not coping very well because of the weight of her school bag. But as I say, no eleven-year-old in England is expected to carry a 12kg bag to school every day (and like Kixmusic's daughter she has her PE kit as well as her school bag and her trombone on one day). I'm sure if your son only has the trombone and a "normal" school bag he will be fine.

1. I started playing when I was about 9, I think. I don't remember having any problems with reaching 6th position. It used to be a real stretch to get to 7th, but it was never a problem. The fact that he can't currently reach 7th position should not put you off starting him on lessons now.

2. I was on a rented trombone for over a year, and I would definitely say it's the best way to go. It's best to check that he definitely wants to stick with the trombone before spending a load on one.

3. I started on a tenor. It's probably because it's lighter than a bass or one with a plug, and perhaps more versatile than an alto. I'm not entirely sure, though. I think most people do start on a tenor.

4. It's really not very easy to damage a trombone. Also, I don't think weight would be too much of an issue; they're not really that heavy. I've walked to school (about 10 mins) and back with it for many years!

5. I don't know whether a private tutor would be better, but I agree with kerioboe that I really don't think he'd get very far at all with only a 10 minute lesson.

Is this true? A 10 minute lesson? By the time you've unpacked the trombone and assembled it, there'd be hardly any time to learn anything!

I am a brass teacher and teach many groups at primary level in fours, with each lesson lasting half an hour. I would urge caution with any lesson lasting less than 20 minutes.

Hello all
Thanks for the information. I have manage to get hold of the teacher. the lessons will be during school hours. i am concerned as he would be missing out on class work and they do not give any extra work to those kids who go out for their music lesson. i am really now concerned as well as saying that the 10 mins lesson may be a waste not enough time for prep and playing etc . i could try it out for a term

When I was at school, lessons were also in school time. It was never a problem with missing school work, though, as we were just told to copy up from a friend. If that's the reason you're only sticking with 10 minute lessons, then I'd increase it to about 20/30 if possible.