I've done Grade 1, and can do my Grade 2 pieces to almost perfection, so I'll be taking that exam soon hopefully. I practice around 2 hours a day on weekdays and 3 at weekends. Also, if I practice vibrato 15 minutes a day, how long will it take me to master it? I am not brilliant at violin, but not dreadful either. Thanks

Yes, I should say it was possible, but your teacher is in the best position to say as to how advisable it is. I shouldn't aim any higher than G5 in a year though, and be prepared to be told to settle for lower if s/he thinks fit.

Good hunting!

Maybe possible if you stop doing exams and just do the minimum required to get to g5 level.

I have gone from g4 to 7in 2 terms after I stopped exams. I may have a go at grade 8 for next june/july just to prove I can actually do it.

Hi Lilyfish, there are quite a lot of posts at the moment about going through the exam syllabus at speed.

I can't help feeling that although it is certainly possible to advance through grades quickly, (especially if you have some previous musical experience) there may not be much advantage in rushing. Especially with bowed strings, it seems to take some time to acquire the muscle memory, ear and flexibility etc, depending what age you are when you start learning.

I just think it should be alright to allow a good long time to develop a really beautiful, mature sound and confident technique without being constrained by the syllabus- unless of course there is a special reason to have exams (like a course requirement or something). Just my personal opinion of course!

As for vibrato, well speaking as someone who has definitely not mastered it - I would say keep doing the 15 mins and and it will get better and better.

N

It's likely that it's possible. I'm very impressed that you're already doing vibrato, I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one who isn't . I'm doing Grade 4 later in the year but my teacher won't be letting me anywhere near vibrato until my technique has improved.

Well, I do have a reason for zooming through the syllabus- I really want to join my local youth orchestra, but they require a grade 5 standard. And it won't be long before I'm too old to join it...
As for vibrato, I'm definitely improving! I think I have ok intonation. If a note sounds wrong, I can change it pretty quickly.
I LOVE VIOLIN. I think I'll go play it now...

I'm curious - How do you know you're at grade seven standard if you haven't done the exam? Being able to play the pieces, for example, doesn't mean that you're at that level.

I think if you're stopping doing exams, then fine - stop doing exams, but then don't apply the exam syllabus levels to your playing. Remember that grade seven is a false construct that only has meaning in the context of exams - outside of that context it's meaningless. For example, if you came to France and told people you were a grade 7 violinist, they wouldn't know what that meant - all they're interested in is how well you can play.

Outside of the exam context, what you should focus on is becoming a great violin player. If you need milestones to do that, then use the exams as such - always remembering that grade 8 isn't the end of your learning - it's really just the beginning.

To answer the original poster - if you really want to do it, you should be able to and as it's for the orchestra, then it makes sense that you want to do it so quickly - I would just urge you to focus on building technique and repertoire once you've done it rather than becoming obsessed with the 'what grade am I at' mentality.

Good luck!

Allan

Yeah I just wanna do grade 8 to prove to myself thatI am grade 8 standard, when I come to doing the exam.

Of course I have to do a theory test first.

Grade 8 is basically a way of saying, look, a new talented violinist is emerging. One day he may be a pro.

I have been getting a little irritated, and worried, by some of these threads too. On reflection though I think the problem is that these threads are conversations between some quite young people and a number of perhaps somewhat older people. Perhaps I should stick to the Adult Learner Forum to get away from this grade-chasing business. It is not the young people's fault to be overkeen and wanting to rush things, though I would say unwise.

I agree, and with nova too - though berfaceno.1 is not all that young!

I'd say it was almost impossible to get from grade 2 violin to grade 5 (let alone 6) in a year, unless young people learn much faster than we oldies - which a number of people have told me is not the case. I expect it to take at least two years in my case, although I practise around two hours a day, and I'm making faster progress than most of the other adult learners I know.

I only started grades after 5 years of playing.

Then my teacher put me in for a grade that was too easy and was a waste of time and money.

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I have been getting a little irritated, and worried, by some of these threads too. On reflection though I think the problem is that these threads are conversations between some quite young people and a number of perhaps somewhat older people. Perhaps I should stick to the Adult Learner Forum to get away from this grade-chasing business. It is not the young people's fault to be overkeen and wanting to rush things, though I would say unwise.
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I can understand that, and quite frankly, I would much rather take my time with things. But I really want to join the orchestra, and if they need a grade 5 certificate, I don't have much choice. I expect I'll probably slow right down afterwards though, and go back over the syllabus to make sure I know all the techniques properly.

I guess we don't actually have to read the posts! This is a good point though - every one comes to playing music with their own personal motivation, and there is nothing wrong with being very achievement-orientated if that is what you like, or your teacher/parents/peers expect.

Personally I think that exams are useful shorthand for other people, to give an approximate idea of standards, also an important validation of work put in. They are a good structured path through the learning process ie; if you can't do the stuff on the grade 8 syllabus for instance, you won't be able to play all the music you might want to because some of it will be too difficult.

However, there are some grindingly awful players who have reached grade 8, and some real musicians who haven't bothered with exams at all. Innate musicality and a strong motivation for mastering your instrument so that the music is not hampered by poor technique is probably more important (in my opinion) in the end than certificates, which only represent a snapshot view of ability.

Having said that, I will add that although I did scramble through quite a lot when younger I am an experienced chickener-outer of exams!

N

Is that what you really think, or was that comment a wind up?

If it wasn't, then getting to Grade 8 is just the beginning. While I would not want to dampen the enthusiasm of anyone who thought they might like to become a professional musician, it takes a lot more 'stuff' to make it as a pro than just being able to play the violin.

Go and have a listen to some masterclasses at the RAM or RCM and get a feel for just what you'd be up against and with no guarantee of success at the end.

I didn't say anything about the Grade 8 comment, because I don't want to dampen Violin Hero's enthusiasm, but I do feel that (s)he's overestimating things a little - as I previously pointed out, being able to play G7 pieces doesn't make you a G7 violinist (especially when previous threads have revealed that knoweldge of position work is very shaky) and furthermore, G8 is actually still a beginner level - sure, it's the highest of the grades, but it just really tells you you're ready to begin studying seriously if you want to take it somewhere.

As a professional musician (albeit a recent convert) - G8 to me means that the musician in question is a reasonable amateur player who has mastered all the basics and is ready to start serious study if he or she chooses to do so.

However, I'm aware that it's not fashionable to say this...

I think maybe the reason that so many young people rush is the fact that there is a limited amount of time before going off to university, whereas for most adult learners, there's an indefinite stretch of time to learn ahead of them. Some people will need to pass particular grades to get onto a particular course, but most will just be facing having to think seriously about what musical things to keep on etc. For example, while I feel I have reached a level on piano where I could happily potter along on piano without lessons, without going backwards and developing dreadful technique, I couldn't really say the same of recorder, so hopefully I'll be able to carry on lessons through uni The biggest dilemma I have at the moment though is that I have recently aquired a violin, so the question is whether i could reach any kind of level in a year to make it worthwhile learning it, and if not whether I would have time/money to carry on properly learning it through uni.

In my case, I'm not particularly bothered about what grade I am, unless at some point in the near future I discover that I could get into X university music group if I have grade X recorder. But all grades are is a measure of progress, and if you work hard, you progress quickly, hence getting to grades quickly if you take the exams. All you need to do to take an exam is learn three pieces and some scales. Surely all you do while not preparing for exams is develop technically and learn lots of pieces - why can't three of these be exam pieces and scales form part of the technical work?

I'm sorry to ramble, but I think its a bit too easy to judge young people for rushing too much, when older people (unless they are terminally ill and have been told you have X weeks/months/years left) have 'forever' to learn while we are, in a way, working to a deadline.

*runs for cover*

Rsofrog's comments seem very sane to me - probably because I also live in a country where ABRSM grades have no meaning. The grade systems that do exist here are seen as playthings for amateurs, and are actively avoided by young people aiming for a career in music. Of course, that view is just as extreme as the idea that grades are *all* that is needed!

But to be honest, if people don't realize at Grade 5 that Grade 8 is not their final destination, they will surely realize it by the time they do pass Grade 8?

My son is at that "rush-rush" stage, and there's just nothing that can be done about it except knuckle down - and try to maintain a sense of perspective about where exams and audition prep belong in a long-term involvement with music. As long as courses and groups require "Grade X" and music courses require "Grade Y" piano, and "Grade Z" first study instrument, the only choices available are to give up music or to get the paper required. Nobody thinks that cramming for GCSE maths makes a person think they know all there is to know about maths, surely, or suggests that students who *need* to work to meet GSCE standard should toss in the whole idea of GCSEs before they leave school?

The only way around the exam-rush syndrome is for parents to decide at the age of 2 that Darling will have a career in music in this instrument, studying at that university, and to plan accordingly, hoping that no requirements change in the intervening 15 years! And wouldn't that be worse than having a kid suddenly decide that music is No. 1, and having to rush to meet requirements?

Those are valid points Sarah - thanks for bringing them up.

Allears - I see what you mean about courses requirements - I'm used to a no grade system like you - here you go to the conservatoire, but even when you graduate (by which time you're beyond G8 level) you are seen as a beginner / amateur player until you decide whether you're going to do the CNSM (conservatoire national supérieur de musique) - a bit like the music schools in the UK - if you get in (and most don't, the standards are very high) then you have a shot at becoming a musician. Anything before that is seen as learning the basics - here, people actually do consider things like Kreutzer / Fisher to be simple beginners books containing simple skills.

The approach is so different, scales are not taught the same way, vibrato starts as soon as intonation is secure (rather than 'it must be learnt by GX') and you may well see someone who would be only G3 learning something that may be on the G7 syllabus, slowly and with a definite goal in mind - perhaps to improve a certain element of their playing.

All this makes it hard for me to see G8 as this magical destination where people are amazing players (I've many very ropey G8 players, actually) - my own piano skills are around diploma level, yet I don't consider myself a pianist - I'm not good enough, I'm preparing for a singing diploma and yet still consider that I have so much to learn (even though it's actually how I earn my living).

I think you're right, they'll realise when they get there that it's not the end, rather the beginning!

Grade 8 is both an end and a beginning, in that, for many people, it's the goal post to be working towards, so in that respect is an end. But the reason you are probably working towards it in the first place is that it is, as someone here once put it, the first rung on the ladder and where the real fun starts.

Very true - I managed to get a good distinction at grade 8 without any kind of acceptable vibrato and no knowledge of basic bowing techniques beyond legato and detache. For me, and most people who go through the grade system, grade 8 means some peer respect and something for the ucas form. As one teacher said to me "Grade 8 distinction? Great! Now go and learn to play the violin". Maybe if grades had a better all-round testing system which wasn't so anti-technique this would be less the case but as it is easy to pass without ever having studied technique aside from scales, it's basically meaningless in any real sense.

I just wish I realised that before I took it...

You have a valid point of course Sarah, especially if you are coming form the perspective of being a young person. As a person in middle age I am not working to a deadline as there is no possibility of making music my career. I do understand why people who are at school may want to get their grade 8 (taking on board the comments in this thread about what that may or may not say about their musicianship) by a certain date and will have to rush and perhaps cut some corners even. We all do that when we are young when it comes to al sorts of academic exams: you learn the essential bits in order to pass and move on towards your career goal.

If I may sound terribly middle aged for a moment though: it is the hallmark of the young to think that adults have 'forever', as you say in your post, to learn. I have been young once too you know! When you are an adult learner you are painfully aware how short and precarious your life ahead is, even without being ill. My aspirations are to get good enough (which is about grade 8) to join a particular amateur orchestra, before I die too young, or get arthritis, or any disease that prevents me from playing.

So we all have our ambitions and feel like rushing sometimes. What astounds me in certain threads (and led to my earlier comment) is that people who claim to be working towards the higher grades display ignorance of what I would consider to be the basics. Like reading a piece in a different clef than the one you are most used to, or vibrato, or position changes, etc etc.

Have you thought of 'Barter' sarah123? Violin is a relatively common instrument, so there is likely to be someone at Uni who is G8. I accept they may not be a teacher but they could help you and there is almost certainly some skill you have that means you can barter lessons. Doesn't solve the time issue I know - but it's half way!


As an adult learner I have to disagree with the 'only the young rush' argument that has been put forward here. I want to get to a confident G6 ASAP so I can join my local orch &/or band. I'm around the half way mark as far as age goes and I know how quickly time goes - I'd like to get into the band before I go grey & wrinkly. I do accept I have a category of confident G6 as opposed to just G6 which perhaps represents what everyone else seems to be saying - But When I get to the last furlong I may opt to take G6 early and then get G6 level confidence/playing afterwards, so that when I go along to join I can say I passed G6 6 months ago.

I use to play the violin when I was younger and went through the grade system. I always thought grade 8 was the best, once I get to grade 8 I'll be brilliant. Then I stopped playing because of university. When I picked up the violin again as an adult, I still thought that grade 8 was the ultimate goal and I wanted to reach that goal as soon as possible. But after reading threads on this forum, it made me realise that grade 8 is only the beginning, there's a lot more to learn! At the end of the day, it's not all about grades. I rather improve my technique and be able to play well rather than rush through the grades. If only I had known that when I was younger! I use to think I was really good because I can play grade 5 music and only got 3 more grades to go before being able to play like a pro. I was so naive!

I did rush through grades when I was younger, after I did my grade 2 my teacher worked on my scales and some graded pieces, a year later I was preparing for my grade 5 exam. But I wasn't that good, I just memorised the grade 5 pieces, my technique was terrible, my aural and sight reading wasn't that good. So it is possible to get to grade 5/6 in a year, but it'll be better not to rush things and to learn it properly.

You're not naive - it's just that in this country a lot of people raise their eyebrows and doubt your musicianship if you can't display any Grade certificates. It's silly, and it can force people into spending a disproportionate amount of their time on Grade repertoire when they could just as well spend their time just as profitably developing their musicianship in other, perhaps more varied ways.

Also, as some posters have pointed out, Grades aren't even recognised in most of Europe. I met these two amazing Slovakian violinists recently - they're both first years at Conservatoire. Neither of them had ever heard of Grade exams and have never taken one in their life, yet both of them are amazingly wonderful musicians, one of them particularly. In fact the extra-specially amazing one told me he wouldn't stand a chance as a professional musician in Slovakia - the competition is too steep, although he will probably end up joining the Slovak National Orchestra one day. He'd be able to score about 148 if not 150 at Grade 8, yet a solo career would still be beyond him and he knows it.

But you did pass? I still haven't got round to taking any exams at all, so I don't really have a clear idea of how good you have to be, especially in terms of tone and intonation. But some people are certainly reluctant to move on to harder material until they are satisfied with their playing of the easier material. I suspect that in some cases this means they are still working on the material set for a particular grade even after they could have passed that grade. Obviously this is more likely to happen in the case of people who don't take exams at all, because it's easier to feel that you're not playing the stuff properly if you don't have a certificate saying that you are; and for that reason it's more likely to happen in the case of adult learners. So perhaps it's not that young people are rushing through the grades: it's the exam-taking young people who are being realistic (i.e. believing what the ABRSM system tells them), and the non-exam-taking adults who are being overly self-critical. Does that make any sense?

but to get the grade 5 certificate, you'lll need that technique in place. they don't put the other grades in for fun, it's a way of building you up to the higher grades! I've just taken grade 7, and there's no way my teacer will let me anywhere near grade 8 without my technique improving...