Hi

I'm doing a small test in relation to relative majors/minors. I've been asked to write in the bass clef the key signature of C minor. I've worked it out that C minor will be the 6th degree of its relative major (i.e. E). However, how do I know whether it should be E sharps or E flats? Apparently my answer should be the key of Eb Major but I can't understand why. Can you help?

Sorry if I'm being thick and missing something......

To find a relative minor, you go down a minor third (ie 3 semitones). So to get the relative major you go up a minor third (from C to Eb).

the sixth degree of E major is C#.

So it must be Eb major that Cminor relates to.

I think this is one way of looking at it. Hope it helps ?

Ooooooooo, ta. That's a new one on me but I've tried it out and I like it. Thanks again.

and that helps too. Thanks both. I'm new to this site and I love it! You're all really helpful!

To go from a minor key to its relative major, go up three semitones.

C minor is the 6th degree of Eb major, its relative major.
E major doesn't have a C in it at all, so it can't be related (at least, not at all closely) to C minor. E major has a C# as its submedient; therefore the relative minor of E major is C# minor.

You will rarely (if ever) see the key of E# major or minor - composers will generally use F instead. You will see the note E# in keys of F# major or minor (although Gb major is generally used in preference to F#).

There is a visual pattern which might help you remember some of the relative major/minor keys.

If the major key starts on a black key - Eb
The relative minor starts on a white key - C
Same for Ab major/F minor
Bb major/G minor

It also works the other way round.

White key tonic - E major
Black key tonic - C# minor
Same for A major/F# minor
B major/G#minor

But what about F major vs D minor? Or D major vs b minor?

If you read my post again I made a point of saying some relative major/minor keys. I know the visual can be very helpful to some students. Of course, keys like Db major/Bb minor, Gb major/Eb minor are going to be both black keys, while your examples are both white keys.

I have slightly edited the post to make it absolutely clear - hopefully

Isn't it easier to just see which keys share the same key sig?

eg Eb major and C minor both have 3 flats.

(or am I assuming a level of knowledge in theory?)

Maybe - I was asked in my teaching dip how I would teach the scales Eb minor and Gb MAJOR and I went into the key signature, how many flats, degrees of the scale etc. My examiner said 'yes - that's an academic way of explaining it - but how would you explain it to a pupil 'visually''. Of course, I would also explain to the student about key signatures - that's obvious - but some extra help is sometimes needed to make something 'memorable'.

Gb minor! That's 5 flats and 2 double flats in the key signature - yikes!

Chris

Yikes a typo! I meant Gb major of course