Hi all,

After looking through the questions and answers for several weeks, this is my first question so here goes...

I am a complete beginner adult learner, and I have a question about tuning my cello. When I first bought it, I attempted to tune it by listening to tones on the internet. However, this proved more difficult than it sounds, and I quickly managed to break a string.

So, together with a new set of strings, I bought an electronic tuner. I just want to make sure that I've tuned it right.

I can press the A and D strings right down to the bottom edge of the finger board with my little finger, with no effort at all - and believe me, I'm far from being strong. Are they suppose to be this loose?. The tuner is reading A,D,G,C, but the strings are far more difficult to bow and they don't sound as loud as before. I only changed the D string, and this sounds particularly flabby and it vibrates a lot more then the rest.


Thank you in advance
Stephen[size=4]

Welcome to the Forums, tridentcello!

Did you have your cello professionally set up when you bought it, tridentcello? I'm no expert on cello set-up, but the strings certainly shouldn't be flabby. One thought occurs to me, looking at the order in which you have put your tuning notes - are you tuning the wrong way round? The bottom, thickest string, on the right hand side as you play the cello, should be tuned to the C two octaves below middle C on the piano, then working upwards the other three are the G, D and A above that. I hope I'm not insulting your intelligence, but I know how easy it is to make what seem like obvious mistakes when you are starting out with very little knowledge. When I started I couldn't make out why I couldn't get a note out of the cello. When I took the bow to a music shop and told them my problem they said it was because there was no rosin on it!

Ohhhh - thank goodness I'm not the only one who did that!

Welcome, Trident Cello.

Hi,

No I didn't have my cello professionally set up, I just read lots of stuff on the internet. Its an Archer from gear4music. Its their top model, though it still didn't cost very much.

As far as I'm aware, the strings are tuned in the right order with A being the thinest and C being the fatest. Looking at the strings again, I don't think I've restrung the D string very well, so I'll have another go at it today.

Should the A string be very easy to press down, even at the bottom of the fingure board?, because mine is. As I mentioned, I can easily press it, even with my little finger.

Best wishes
Stephen

Are you tuning the strings to the right octave as well as the right note name?- each string should sound a higher pitch than the thicker one next to it. The pitch difference should be a fifth (i.e. the twinkle twinkle of twinkle twinkle little star)

To be honest, you need to ask your teacher about this one, (or a music shop you can get to if it's a while before you see your teacher again).

If the response to this is: I don't have a teacher, I'm teaching myself, then your next move is to get a teacher!!

A good teacher is particularly important for strings.

I'd say, absolutely essential!! And make sure they are a 'first study' string player ie. a specialist, and not for example, a piano teacher who also dabbles in a bit of beginner strings.

it sounds to me as if you may be tuning an octave too low?

Liz

Hi,

I bought a digital tuner called an ASR LT1000. It has automatic settings for guitar, bass and violin, but not cello. So I just set it to manual chromatic and took it from there. The machine has got a pitch control, but I'm not sure what its for. When I turn it on, it sets to 440 Hz. When I press the pitch button, it increases by steps of 1 Hz. However, I never touch that, as I don't really know what its for.

I definitely do intend to get a teacher, however its been many years since I read music, so I thought that I'd buy something like “A tune a day DVD” or “Ultimate Cello”, first. Progres would be painfully slow if I hired a teacher, before I relearned how to read music.


Stephen

Hi,

I've just had another go, and now the A and D strings are very tight. I can only press the A string right down to about three quaters down the neck.

Best wishes
Stephen

Just to add another voice to the 'get a teacher crowd': get a teacher!

If you feel you want to get up to speed with reading music first I would do it without the cello. You will only be teaching yourself bad habits which will need to be unlearned, thus making progress also painfully slow. In fact, you run the risk of having to go backwards first instead of forwards.

Teaching yourself a stringed instrument is a bad idea, unless you have prodigious talent in that direction. It will also be frustrating for you as you will probably struggle to make a decent sound. Do you play anything else?

Teachers are used to taking on beginners whose music reading skills are limited. Many people who start the cello are new to the bass clef anyway, unless they have played another bass instrument or the piano. Playing and reading music can be learnt at the same time.

Good luck anyway!

Hi,

No I can't play anything yet, I've just been practicing on open strings and developing a good tone. It took me about 2 days before I could get a decent tone. I've found "Cello chat" on youtube to be very useful. My plan was to get a teacher perhaps in the Autumn, when I had taught myself the basics. I taught myself to touch type a couple of years ago, which I suppose in some ways does require similar skills. However, the issue of tuning is a problem. I thought it would just be a case of buying a digital tuner; I never gave the issue of octaves a thought.

I'm concerned that I may damage the cello if I over tighten the strings, so I think I'll leave it for the time being until I get more information. I've emailed the shop where I bought the tuner, to see if I'm using it right.


Stephen

You are unlikely to damage the cello by overtightening the strings, as the strings will probably break before the cello does! Gets pricey after a while.

Your enthusiasm to teach yourself may be admirable, but you are really on the wrong track. There is no comparison with touch typing, which requires no technique, just a lot of practice. I guess the closest musical analogy would be the piano (which does require technique of course), which some people learn on their own quite well (I was never one of those unfortunately).

You need to learn how to sit, how to hold the cello and bow, how to place your fingers on the strings etc. Cello chat is quite useful, but as an additional resource to lessons.

Better to learn the basics with a teacher and then do without (if you must) and practise by yourself, than the other way around.

Glad you are getting a decent sound out of it. Perhaps you have some natural ability. That won't prevent you from picking up bad habits from YouTube.

Don't let all this put you off. The cello will give its rewards in due course.

Hi,

Thanks for that. Yes I really am determined - my dream is to play some Bach on it one day. Just one thing. I tuned the thinest string to A, but when Liz suggested that it was an octave too low, I tightened the peg until I got A again on the machine. However, now it is very tight and its very hard to press down from about half way down the finger board. Does this sound more like it?

Stephen

Get a teacher.

Get a teacher NOW.

Get a teacher now so that your teacher, who will know exactly what the issues are by seeing your cello, rather than us trying to guess second-hand from your descriptions, can fix your tuning in the first place and show you how to maintain it.

Get a teacher now so that your teacher can show you how to hold your instrument and bow, how to sit and how to make sounds without puting your body into shapes that can injure you.


Get a teacher now so you learn right from the word go, rather than learning wrong and then having to unlearn.


You will save so much more time and hassle by going to a teacher than faffing about on your own.

Get a teacher.

Thanks for that advice. However, I've asked for an idea if the A string should be difficult or easy to press down. Nobody seems to be able or willing to give me an answer. Therefore, I will never trouble this forum again.

Bye.

If you are still there: people here are trying to help you by giving you the only sound advice which makes sense. The unanimous voices should tell you something.

As far as your A string is concerned: it is probably right. You could not overtune an A string by an octave without it breaking. It tends to break when you go much beyond B. The A should be the A below middle C on a piano, on electronic tuners it is called A3. Well, on mine anyway, but I guess that is standard.
You should be able to press the string down onto the fingerboard along its entire length though, but yes, with some difficulty as you get higher up (i.e. nearer the floor). It will hurt your fingertips until you have built up a layer of hard skin.

Hi Tridentcello, and welcome to the forums

When I started learning an instrument, I couldn't read music at all but I don't remember my teacher spending a great deal of time on it or thinking that it was a big deal - as others have said, there are so many issues with any instrument (I'm clarinet) which are much more important. I posted about this fairly recently so I've copied the relevant paragraphs.




All the posts recommending that you get a teacher must sound a bit dispiriting if you were hoping to teach yourself, but truly it's the most helpful thing that anyone can say. Don't let it put you off asking questions though... it's just that most people find that asking questions on here is good for support in-between lessons rather than a substitute for lessons.

Hope you enjoy looking round the forums

skylark


Edit. Tridentcello, I wrote the above post whilst you were posting your most recent message and I've only just seen it. Please don't give up on the forums, they're very helpful normally and it's just unfortunate that a lot of the advice you've received (including mine) has not been about what you've asked. But people ARE trying to be helpful, albeit not in the way you expected. Do spend some time having a look around and contributing to some of the other non-cello threads, and hopefully you'll get to realise the many benefits of this place.

Hi,

Thank you for your replies. I expect this won't be the last time that you hear from me. Its just that once I've got the A right, everything else will fall into place.

Best wishes
Stephen

Oh, if only it were that simple! Really, there's no way of going it alone and the early stages are the ones where you MOST need a teacher! It won't be "painfully slow" with one, but you will have to waste a lot of time correcting all the bad habits you get into without experienced help once you start having proper lessons! You'll get to Bach a whole lot faster with someone to guide your steps from the very first go.

I think the reason that no-one was able to answer your question is as Katyjay said, we simply can't guess from your descriptions! We haven't seen what you mean and we just can't speak with any real conviction. You need someone to work with you in person, not on-line. That's all! Bear in mind that most on this forum are string players to some degree or other and we do know what we're talking about when we say a teacher from word 'go' is vital. I do appreciate that it's frustrating to apparantly not get a straight answer, but we can't give one. You really need someone to look at your cello and show you what to do with set-up, tuning, playing positions, everything! It's not that we're being awkward or unwelcoming, it's just that we've been there and we want the best for you - so you can play with us at forum concerts!!! (Or, what do you say, Skylark???)

I say it might be easier for you to convince him about that if you were coming to play at the next one yourself!

Please do take our advice and get a few lessons before you begin to play. I started badly on the cello, being taught by a violinist who did nothing to teach me correct technique. I had so much to put right when I did have decent lessons from a professional cellist. I might have been better not having done any at all. Do get off to a proper start. If your posture and bow-hold is good from thr start your progress will be so much easier. Your teacher will show you how to tune it and change strings the correct way and that will be a very useful thing.

I wouldnt keep pressing the A string at the end of the finger board, it will snap, and that won't be a pretty sight.

It shouldnt be easy atall, infact it should be possible, that range is more used for harmonics.

I can't - I have no repertoire to offer!! Next year, (all being well), but I plan on calling in that morning to muck about with someone else's viola and cello, if poss!!

But seriously, last year I lost a lot of time I needed to devote to learning in preparing for the concert as it was my first time and I entered for it when I'd been playing only a few weeks. This year I'm focusing on actually learning to play and preparing for the Prep Test, which I'm now wondering if I didn't enter it a bit early. Still, Teach wants me to get distinctions on everything (I think!!) and wants me to get a start by doing really well on the Prep Test, so I'm glad I don't have concert pieces to prac for as well. Bit much at one go for me. I'm still really taking baby steps as I have a lot on much of the time and not really as much time as I would like for prac etc. I will try for next year though, promise! (NB, I promised to try.......)