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nannyjay
I have been asked to teach one pupil by the 'cramming' method, just so that she can get Grade 5 theory. She plays flute and is at Grade 6 level, but has not done any theory with her flute teacher. I have tried teaching her from the beginning and it is a real slog, as she is not at all interested, so I have agreed to teach her what she needs to know to pass Grade 5 and leave it at that.

I know that there will be some things which will overlap from previous grades and we will have to tackle that as I am sure she will have forgotten anything I have taught her, but my question is this. Has anyone attempted to do this in a short time, and if so, have you any tips. The girl is 14, has passed Grade 2 piano and Grade 5 flute, plays in a local orchestra and loves playing but hates theory.
petrat
I have done this on several occasions when pupils of other teachers need a grade five result in a hurry. Once they understand about keys and their signatures they are halfway towards doing the transposition and the intervals questions and the rest is quite easy after that. I can't imagine teaching a pupil who hates theory though. I am not sure that I would undertake that task.
noodle
QUOTE(petrat @ Mar 20 2008, 11:53 PM) *

I have done this on several occasions when pupils of other teachers need a grade five result in a hurry. Once they understand about keys and their signatures they are halfway towards doing the transposition and the intervals questions and the rest is quite easy after that. I can't imagine teaching a pupil who hates theory though. I am not sure that I would undertake that task.
agree.gif If she hates theory, then maybe she could do grade 5 practical musicianship or jazz instead. Maybe she should try TG exams and then there'd be no need for theory.
maggiemay
I'm sure it can work with a pupil who has a fair bit of knowledge.

I was asked last summer to cram a student (preparing for grade 6 piano but not with me) for grade 5 theory. She had the grade 5 workbook but was clearly struggling.

We tried looking through a grade 3 paper to see whereabouts she was - in fact by the third week I realised that she could not even attempt a grade one paper. I did not feel confident of getting her through grade 5 in the (mother's) specified time limit and they did not come back for a fourth week.

Nannyjay, I think mine was a rather extreme case. If your pupil is playing two instruments she has probably absorbed more background knowledge than my student had.
nannyjay
Yes, I think this is a bit different Maggiemay, as I have known this family for a while and have taught both girls up to grade 2 and 4 standards. The older girl was easy to teach theory to as she thoroughly enjoyed the logic of it all, but the younger sister is completely different and has given up piano in favour of her flute which she enjoys more. I'll let you know if she ever passes Grade 5 - she wants to take it in the autumn term. A nice challenge for me anyway! biggrin.gif
x_Pengy_x
I only studied theory for a year before taking my G5, which is quick by some peoples standards, but then again I was really interested in it so I picked it up quickly.
Whether the parent wants her child to do the exam or not, i doubt you will be able to teach her fast enough if she isnt interested.
After all, shouldnt music be about passion?

good luck though - its definately worth a try smile.gif
oboist
I have occasionally done the "cram" route for Grade 5 theory but always with people who are about Grade 4-5 practical and so have some notion of what music is about.

I have found it helpful to use exercises from the ABRSM books and past papers but teach by topic (from start to finish) rather than follow each book in order. So, we start with keys, intervals and scales etc, then rhythms, then chords/cadences, terms and signs, composition and so on. This method has got six reluctant theory students (mainly from other teachers) through in half a term. Hard work (and they need to do work between lessons too) but we made it - one even got a Distinction by this method!

Good Luck with your pupil.

nannyjay
Thankyou for the positive comments Oboist. This girl may not be more than Grade 2 in piano, but she has more experience of the flute, and has Grade 5 in that. It never ceases to amaze me why some instrumental teachers completely ignore the writing bit. Then they wonder why their pupil can't attempt the theory exam they need so badly.
andante_in_c
It may well be that many instrumental pupils are having lessons at school, and the written part of theory (as opposed to learning about scales, keys etc. during the course of playing) simply cannot be fitted in. It's also more of a challenge to teach theory to single line instrumentalists, especially those on treble clef instruments, as the theory workbooks are so piano-based.

I've never yet inherited a pupil from school lessons who has done any theory, so all my Grade 5ers tend to be from scratch. Quite a few have moved over to private lessons because parents find out they need theory and it's a good reason to make the switch to longer private lessons.

I too tend to teach by topic, like oboist. Take Five and Pass first Time by Christopher Dunn is a useful resource for the pupils learning theory at this stage.
neil.clarinet
I would endorse what others have said about teaching theory to pupils doing certain instruments such as woodwind. A lot of theory (and aural and other tests for that matter) are very piano orientated. For example clarinettists don't have to know about bass, alto, tenor clef for their playing, nor demisemiquavers for grade 3, etc. Pupils initially come to us to learn our instrument so it is important we teach theory in a way that is relevant from the beginning, so they see it as a natural part of learning, not a detached discipline in itself..

The best way to teach theory to such pupils is simply as you progress and as things arise, ie 'what notes are we playing here, how long does this beat last, what time signature is this, what key are we in, what about dynamics" etc. I am all for developing the more rounded musician, but I do believe one has to start with things relevant to their instrument, either directly or indirectly. Some things in the theory workbooks, to me, are not even remotely useful to woodwind players (alto clef etc.), and that is from someone who has stated many times the need for a rounded musical education.
sbhoa
QUOTE(neil.clarinet @ Mar 23 2008, 12:52 PM) *

I would endorse what others have said about teaching theory to pupils doing certain instruments such as woodwind. A lot of theory (and aural and other tests for that matter) are very piano orientated. For example clarinettists don't have to know about bass, alto, tenor clef for their playing, nor demisemiquavers for grade 3, etc. Pupils initially come to us to learn our instrument so it is important we teach theory in a way that is relevant from the beginning, so they see it as a natural part of learning, not a detached discipline in itself..

The best way to teach theory to such pupils is simply as you progress and as things arise, ie 'what notes are we playing here, how long does this beat last, what time signature is this, what key are we in, what about dynamics" etc. I am all for developing the more rounded musician, but I do believe one has to start with things relevant to their instrument, either directly or indirectly. Some things in the theory workbooks, to me, are not even remotely useful to woodwind players (alto clef etc.), and that is from someone who has stated many times the need for a rounded musical education.


As my instrument is piano I don't have this problem.
I do agree about covering theory through the music being learned and do this myself. I've stopped doing much by way of written theory in the early stages as I realised that I didn't learn my theory that way. I don't now cover theory in a 'formal' sense until a fair amount has already been covered through the process of learning to play.
I do think that too much is sometimes made of dealing with different clefs. You DON'T have to be able to 'read' the clefs you don't regularly use you just have to understand what they mean. If you know how the clef you are accustomed to reading works then all you need to know is which note the other clefs are marking out for you.
The problem often comes when people don't understand that the notes go up the 'ladder' in alphabetical order. Get that in place and the rest in not that difficult.

I've also found that it can help understanding of clefs to show that if you put the bass and treble clef together with an 11th 'imaginary' line between the whole thing is continuous. The C clefs go on the imaginary line and so mark out a different section of the grand staff.
oboist
QUOTE(neil.clarinet @ Mar 23 2008, 01:52 PM) *

I would endorse what others have said about teaching theory to pupils doing certain instruments such as woodwind. A lot of theory (and aural and other tests for that matter) are very piano orientated. For example clarinettists don't have to know about bass, alto, tenor clef for their playing, nor demisemiquavers for grade 3, etc. Pupils initially come to us to learn our instrument so it is important we teach theory in a way that is relevant from the beginning, so they see it as a natural part of learning, not a detached discipline in itself..

The best way to teach theory to such pupils is simply as you progress and as things arise, ie 'what notes are we playing here, how long does this beat last, what time signature is this, what key are we in, what about dynamics" etc. I am all for developing the more rounded musician, but I do believe one has to start with things relevant to their instrument, either directly or indirectly. Some things in the theory workbooks, to me, are not even remotely useful to woodwind players (alto clef etc.), and that is from someone who has stated many times the need for a rounded musical education.



As an oboe teacher I totally agree about the theory resources being so heavily piano orientated. Yes, of course, any single-line player who's going to progress needs to understand harmonic structure, chords, read the other clef(s) etc but I find my oboe pupils are initially completely bewildered by the ABRSM Grade 1 book once it gets onto bass clef and make much slower progress than the pianist for whom it is more natural (though even some of them don't find two clefs easy).

Like others, I tend to teach theory to my oboists much more using the music they're playing in the early days. Unlike the pianist who has simply to put their fingers on the piano and something will come out, non-pianists may be struggling just to get a sound from the instrument and it can be quite a while before a full octave range can be achieved reliably. Try teaching scales over the octave, key sigs, bass clef etc by lesson 2 or 3 for theory purposes and you end up (generally) with one very confused oboe pupil.

I'm sure we all find a way round it because my oboists do get to Grade 5 theory in the end but it does seem to take them longer than the pianists. However, all's fair really I guess given that the oboists will be taking grade 1 or 2 within 6 months of study usually - that would be some going for a pianist!

On we go..... new term starts next week and there's much to do. smile.gif

Happy Easter all!
essman
QUOTE(x_Pengy_x @ Mar 21 2008, 07:24 PM) *

I only studied theory for a year before taking my G5, which is quick by some peoples standards, but then again I was really interested in it so I picked it up quickly.


I've come from a fairly non-theoretical approach to music playing guitar. It took studying for 6 months solid before taking and passing the Grade 5 Theory exam last year. I think anyone who plays piano will have the upper hand in theory, as it seems to map out much easier than non-piano instruments.

Grade 5 can be done in a short timeframe, but it takes a lot of work and commitment i.e. you have to be interested.

S
x_Pengy_x
QUOTE(essman @ Mar 25 2008, 01:03 PM) *


I've come from a fairly non-theoretical approach to music playing guitar. It took studying for 6 months solid before taking and passing the Grade 5 Theory exam last year. I think anyone who plays piano will have the upper hand in theory, as it seems to map out much easier than non-piano instruments.

Grade 5 can be done in a short timeframe, but it takes a lot of work and commitment i.e. you have to be interested.

S


Yes, because my main instrument is the cornet, and im in a band, I picked up alot before I started studying, without even knowing I had.

I play guitar now, having got one a few months back, and I have to say I use very little of my knowledge of theory when playing it, even the tab is totally different than actual music!

But hey, you have more experience than alot of people, being able to read tab as well smile.gif
Oldpiano
QUOTE(essman @ Mar 25 2008, 01:03 PM) *

QUOTE(x_Pengy_x @ Mar 21 2008, 07:24 PM) *

I only studied theory for a year before taking my G5, which is quick by some peoples standards, but then again I was really interested in it so I picked it up quickly.


I've come from a fairly non-theoretical approach to music playing guitar. It took studying for 6 months solid before taking and passing the Grade 5 Theory exam last year. I think anyone who plays piano will have the upper hand in theory, as it seems to map out much easier than non-piano instruments.

Grade 5 can be done in a short timeframe, but it takes a lot of work and commitment i.e. you have to be interested.

S


I would say that it is possible to 'cram' for G5 theory. I started playing the piano in July, took G1 practical in November, and then decided to take G5 theory in March. I only had three weeks to prepare for it, and I hadn't any theoretical knowledge before hand. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a struggle. I had no teacher, which must have made it more difficult. Going through past papers was very helpful, but other than that it is facts and more facts. Much depends on the motivation of the student (or conscientiousness of the teacher!).
Czerny
QUOTE(Oldpiano @ Mar 25 2008, 05:34 PM) *

I would say that it is possible to 'cram' for G5 theory. I started playing the piano in July, took G1 practical in November, and then decided to take G5 theory in March. I only had three weeks to prepare for it, and I hadn't any theoretical knowledge before hand. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a struggle. I had no teacher, which must have made it more difficult. Going through past papers was very helpful, but other than that it is facts and more facts. Much depends on the motivation of the student (or consciousness of the teacher!).

Consciousness?! I would say it would make learning theory (or anything else for that matter) very challenging indeed if one's teacher wasn't even conscious! tongue.gif
maggiemay
Then perhaps I wasn't conscious for the student who couldn't attempt a grade one paper although she was doing grade 6 piano ??

that would explain a lot.
LooneyTunes
*recalls being in semiconscious state by the end of a transposition question..... sleep.gif *

It is possible to cram in a few months. I did it by concentrating on the past papers (grades 2-5) and reading around the topics. Take Five and First Steps were the two main books that I used. I wouldn't exactly say it was enjoyable (sorry skylark ph34r.gif ) - but it's not as bad as it appears (it's all fairly logical) and it is a means to an end. Having access to a piano/keyboard really helps, especially with understanding intervals.
all ears
QUOTE
theory (and aural and other tests for that matter) are very piano orientated


It surely is - questions sometimes talk about the "left-hand part" without any mention of the fact that a piano is involved biggrin.gif .

Teaching to the candidate's instrument is one idea, but taking the opportunity to get friendly with a keyboard is good too.

As for cramming...in cases where instrumental teachers don't teach it, it seems hard to avoid some cramming.

If language hadn't been a hurdle, I would definitely have encouraged my son to work through workbooks from Grade 1 on...as it was, doing that would have set Grade 5 around mid-century, I suspect ohmy.gif . So cramming it was, with post-exam aural and music history to try and stop some of the crammed theory from leaking straight out again.
Oldpiano
QUOTE(Czerny @ Mar 25 2008, 06:24 PM) *

QUOTE(Oldpiano @ Mar 25 2008, 05:34 PM) *

I would say that it is possible to 'cram' for G5 theory. I started playing the piano in July, took G1 practical in November, and then decided to take G5 theory in March. I only had three weeks to prepare for it, and I hadn't any theoretical knowledge before hand. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a struggle. I had no teacher, which must have made it more difficult. Going through past papers was very helpful, but other than that it is facts and more facts. Much depends on the motivation of the student (or consciousness of the teacher!).

Consciousness?! I would say it would make learning theory (or anything else for that matter) very challenging indeed if one's teacher wasn't even conscious! tongue.gif


biggrin.gif I think that was a Freudian nod to my recent experience as a pupil! Just last week she nodded off mid-lesson. I'm sure I meant 'conscientiousness', and have edited accordingly!!!
Claire21
QUOTE(neil.clarinet @ Mar 23 2008, 12:52 PM) *

Some things in the theory workbooks, to me, are not even remotely useful to woodwind players (alto clef etc.), and that is from someone who has stated many times the need for a rounded musical education.


Personally I think some of the clef stuff, and some other things like transposition, are important for a general musical education, even if it's not directly relevant to one's own instrument. However, having said that, I taught a 'Grade 5 Crammer' last summer, and was amazed at how much he had to do that I myself have never ever used since my own grade 5. And I have a postgraduate musicology degree, and quite a few years teaching experience at university level - if I don't need these things, then I'm sure a 16 year old doesn't.

(Unfortunately my memory is atrocious and I can't remember what these examples are! To do with the 'compound quadruple' type stuff, and other brain-wringing rhythmic things, I think. And as for the Italian terminology...)
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