I'm currently playing a Peasold violin (bought for about £800, valued at around a grand) which got me through all my grades, but isn't brilliant for the level Im playing at, according to my teacher...

Basically I'm hoping that with a little wheedling I can get a new one for my 18th obiously paying some of it myself...

So does anyone know of
a) A good make with prices from £1000 to £2000
b) Any music stores in the Midlands (or around Leicestershire) which sell them?

Also wondering about bows (mine cost around £140 and isn't great)...

(Incidentally, I started this new thread for violin buying advice as other threads had been queries on the lower end of the market...)


Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Try looking at German instruments (older ones) in that price range. You probably won't get anything decent from the French or Italian lines, but you never know. Go to a violin shop and try out as many as you can in your price range, you may just fall in love (although don't do what I did and fall in love with one WAY outside your budget, then practically have to sell your soul to get i... ) - also check out music college notice boards, sometimes you can get a bargain there.

If you really want a new instrument, with that budget you'd get a very nice chinese instrument - I'd recommend the Jay Haide à l'ancienne instruments and I understand that the Yitamusic T21 violins, once properly set up, are particularly excellent too - both of these brands are being used by pro's as well as good amateur players so you're in safe hands. I think the Jay Haide will set you back about a grand or so and the Yita (which will require some set up work) around eight or nine hundred once the set up has been completely reworked. Both of these are in a different league to the paesold.

Bow wise, if you're spending 2K on a fiddle, aim to spend between 700 and 1000 on a bow.

Have fun shopping !


Allan

[quote name='rosfrog' date='Feb 7 2008, 11:21 PM' post='663381']
[quote name='Scurra' post='663378' date='Feb 7 2008, 11:58 PM']
I'm currently playing a Peasold violin (bought for about £800, valued at around a grand) which got me through all my grades, but isn't brilliant for the level Im playing at, according to my teacher...

Basically I'm hoping that with a little wheedling I can get a new one for my 18th obiously paying some of it myself...

So does anyone know of
a) A good make with prices from £1000 to £2000
b) Any music stores in the Midlands (or around Leicestershire) which sell them?

Also wondering about bows (mine cost around £140 and isn't great)...

(Incidentally, I started this new thread for violin buying advice as other threads had been queries on the lower end of the market...)


Any advice would be greatly appreciated
[/quote]

There are a couple of specialist violin dealers in Leicestershire - one is (I think) David Snelling, the other I saw advertised in a Bardi Orchestra programme recently, but I can't remember the name! I think it was timothy batchelar - www.batchelar.com/violins.html - and there's Turners in Beeston, Nottingham. Try Google: Google is your friend....

nick

I got my last one from Timothy Snelling/Sheehans, and I seem to remember going to timothy Batchelar for something...
Re. Google: Just wondering if anyone had any actual recommendations from experience, thats all.

Thanks very much, both of you!

To be honest, going up from "worth about a grand" to £1000-£2000 isn't likely to make any significant difference unless you strike lucky or unless the Paesold has a different tonal quality to the one you want (as opposed to the amount of tone, if you see what I mean). With new instruments you can get a variation in price of 100% between one dealer and another on exactly the same new instrument, and by the time you start comparing branded names with unbranded names / instruments imported through a wholesaler with those imported direct, you could potentially get even more of a variation for something that is directly comparable. And your search will be further complicated by the fact that your Paesold is played in and a new instrument won't be, and therefore won't be sounding anywhere near as good as it will sound in a couple of years time.

With used instruments it will be a matter of whether you are able to pick it up from an auction (rockbottom price) or a private seller (medium price) or a specialist dealer (top price).

Which Paesold is it and what is it that needs to change, and what price range has your teacher suggested you need to be looking at?

With those caveats, I agree that high end Chinese is perhaps the way to go if that's the amount you want to spend. I've heard good things about both the Jay Haide antiqued and the Heritage series from The Soundpost but I haven't played either of them (I played a viola from the Heritage series and was unimpressed but the violins may well be quite different - in my experience the Chinese are much better at producing violins than violas, they like their tone bright and viola players tend to like it dark)

Liz

It's a Paesold PA803HV Orchestra Violin (£995) - to be honest, you can get far better violins within that price range... The Jay Haide, for example, as you suggested. Basically the sound isn't full enough: it always feels trapped, and I can't get a really rich tone out of it...
Errr... as to the price range my teacher suggested, that was it

I'm not the person to be giving advice on buying violins in the UK...or Europe for that matter. However, from my experience here in Tokyo, your proposed price range was a hard 'un - that area just above the factory violins and just below the handmade violins seems not to be well serviced.

In that range, we found that the new violins tended to be top-end factory violins (including "large" workshops where the line between handmade and factory-made is a bit murky), and while there were some nice instruments, what we found just wasn't any more attractive than the kind of thing you already have in the Paesold. But you may have better luck there.

Certainly the better Chinese workshop violins are surely worth a good look - they don't all sound the same, so play as many as you can find.

I'm not sure that a new instrument is necessarily unrewarding to play at first - the new violin that son got a few months ago settled in a fortnight or so, the sound was already head and shoulders over his old violin from the very beginning, and is now sounding very nice indeed. It will surely continue to change, but it's already good.

However, that was well out of our budget range the first time we searched, but we HAD to buy a full-sized instrument. Since you are older, and a more experienced player, you will be much better equipped to serach through older instruments than we were. The instrument he ended up with had lots of problems, but definitely had a more mature sound than the high-end factory instruments we saw. It was a German factory-made violin about 50 years old, but had had several major parts replaced.

However, if you are looking for hidden dimensions to the sound in your violin, you may find that this type of violin, while more mellow than your Paesold, isn't "ringing" enough. If you go to a good luthiery, they may be able to advise you on whether a different type of bridge will improve the resonance, or whether it won't make an appreciable difference.

When it became obvious that it would be hard to find a good instrument in our price range, we considered buying the bow first - but that really wasn't practical, as you probably know much better than I do!

Good luck with your search, but if you are not satisfied with what you can find, can you start up a "violin fund" for the day when you find the instrument you really want?

Spend more money. Trust me, it's more worth it.

Get a pernumbuco bow, try http://www.sharmusic.com or http://www.johnsonstring.com. They're based in the United States, though you can browse through the catalogs for the descriptions.

Ideally, you should try out bows that you have mailed to you (here in the United States the companies usually pay for the shipping and handling - not sure how it works over there in Europe). When you narrow down your search, pay for it and understand that every dollar counts, since that bow will be your life investment.

Also realize the following:

A better bow will sound better on an instrument.
A better instrument with a not-better bow will not sound any better.

I'm probably too inexperienced to be much help here but I bought a hand-made violin from a luthier who is still developing his craft (but by no means a beginner). It's worth around £1500. Despite being brand new it's pretty fantastic already (my teacher said she would have bought it to play professionally). It rings and sings and looks gorgeous and I probably won't ever need another violin. The tone is developing already (it was very good to start with) and I've got high hopes for how it will sound in a few years time.

I'm just wondering if you could find any local makers and go and try out some of their newer violins. A keen amateur luthier might be delighted to have someone willing to try their instruments. And a hand-made violin will be much more individual than a brand-new factory instrument. You might find you like something immediately and could end up with a bargain in terms of sound long-term.

My 'brand-new' far outshone any of the older violins I've tried.

Good luck.

Ah, sorry - no personal experience. Though as a stop gap you might ask Batchelar what he thinks might improve your current fiddle...just a thought... Good luck!

Nick

The Violin Shop in Glasgow has a good stock of instruments in your price range, both older ones, and new ones particularly hand-made ones from Romania which are very good. Not that I am suggesting that you have to slog up to Glasgow, but that local dealers are worth exploring. This one lets you have instruments and bows on appro for a few weeks so there is plenty time to make your mind up.

It is also worth asking around among your local professional players or orchestra, as pros sometimes have spare instruments that they are willing to sell (they may collect them with a view to selling them to pupils). I got my first good violin that way.

Remember too that the set-up makes a difference, from just replacing the strings to adjusting the soundpost to altering the bridge. My first good violin had a lovely sound on the top but I always felt the G string was a little weak, no matter what brand and weight I tried. Eventually I bought a new violin from an English maker, which I love. But when I finally passed the other one on to my daughter, I had some minor repairs and full set up done by a luthier - and it made such a difference. I needn't have given up on it after all. I don't mind though because at the end of the day we have both ended up with decent instruments.

It is true that the bow makes a huge difference, too. However if you are set on getting a new violin I think I would get that first, and then the bow a little later. In my experience a better violin will still sound better with your old bow. But bows are very individual both to the player and to the instrument, so I would rather wait a little, to get a bow to suit the new violin.

Good luck!

[
Could you get to Oxford? Roger Claridge is wonderful. He works from home and will see you on weekends no problem. I have bought bows and instruments from him. I have found him very honest. If you would like his phone number, you can pm me. Good luck.
Violinma






quote name='Scurra' date='Feb 7 2008, 10:58 PM' post='663378']



I'm currently playing a Peasold violin (bought for about £800, valued at around a grand) which got me through all my grades, but isn't brilliant for the level Im playing at, according to my teacher...

Basically I'm hoping that with a little wheedling I can get a new one for my 18th obiously paying some of it myself...

So does anyone know of
a) A good make with prices from £1000 to £2000
b) Any music stores in the Midlands (or around Leicestershire) which sell them?

Also wondering about bows (mine cost around £140 and isn't great)...

(Incidentally, I started this new thread for violin buying advice as other threads had been queries on the lower end of the market...)


Any advice would be greatly appreciated
[/quote]

I would strongly echo Lottie's advice. In that price range your best bet (by far IMHO) would be a violin from a really good amateur maker (they do exist!) or a recently trained up and coming professional.If you can go up to 2k, you might even pick up something from an established pro maker in the midst of a cash flow crisis!

I'm with Liz on this one. I would wait until you can afford to make a significant difference. Don't forget you will need to upgrade your bow as well (as has already been mentioned) and this will be an additional cost.

Why not go here. It will be a good experience even if you don't buy. And if you go to the viewing before you can try them all

Hi,

if you can get to Northants then try Heritage Music in Brackley who have a large selection of older instruments ( new ones as well) across the price range you quote. They are the people who took over Caswells so also have a large stock of bows with a bow specialist on site - well worth a look and you can stay for hours just trying instruments and bow combinations. You might also ask if they could do anything to your present instrument to tweak it so that it lasts a few more years!. My daughter spent several hours there selecting her bow before spending 1100 pounds on a lucky find...

I think it's worth remembering, though, that old is not necessarily better than new - it's easy to get caught into that idea without realising it - my luthier gives the following rule of thumb - up to 1000 gets you a reasonable student instrument - 1-3K gives you high level chinese or pretty lame old instruments made by several makers rather than one person (workshop), to get better than the high level chinese you need to aim at modern benchmade (around 10k upwards) or old benchmade (considerably more than this). I'm talking in Euros but I imagine that - apart from the odd lucky find - the same rules apply.

You've worried me now!
To be honest, I'm not an expert - I'd just like one that sounds good!
I'm really into gypsy and folk music: I know some violins are particularly good for gypsy stuff, but I'm not sure whether that'd be a priority in terms of narrowing it down...

Anyway - thanks to everyone for the help: I'll let you know what I end up with!

What rosfrog says has been my experience too, in two violin-buying expeditions over the past 4-5 years.

If you find what you want, great, but if not, I'd spend some money on TLC for the Paesold, and save my pennies diligently - you *will* find an instrument, as long as you don't rush!

I agree with all ears - a really good set up on your paesold might do the trick - if you tell a good luthier what you want sound wise, you'd be amazed at what they can achieve by moving the soundpost, changing strings, messing with the action etc.

Alternatively, a good quality chinese instrument set up by a European luthier who has been told that you want a dark gypsy sound will do a nice job I think. Count about five hundred for one of the yitamusic fiddles then about the same in set up. Alternately a Jay Haide will set you back about a grand, spend five hundred or so for an excellent rework and set up and you'll have a great sounding fiddle (my old fiddle teacher uses one of these professionally sometimes and is perfectly happy with it).

Remember the bow too!

Rosfrog, will those Chinese ones come out dark, ever? I've never played either of those but in my experience Chinese violins are always bright. But then I would have thought the Paesold would be fairly bright too.

Of course you can change an awful lot by changing strings. The trouble is if you get something unimproved, spend money on a top level set up and then find you don't like it, you'll never get that extra money back, except perhaps as a trade-in with the same shop you bought it from - and that's assuming they were the ones who did the set up. You'd need a lot of confidence in the brand to risk that.

I guess between us all we've confused the poor girl even more now

Liz

Aye - you can darken out a chinese one with a full set up - different sound post, lower action, sound post moved slightly to favour lower frequencies, slightly softer quality bridge, perhaps some fingerboard work etc. you'd be amazed what can be done if you start from scratch - it's just something that doesn't seem to be all that common in the UK - the words 'set up' seem to mean 'making a violin playable' rather than 'making a violin playable how you want it to sound'.

Ok that shows how much I know - I thought lowering the bridge made it brighter (as well as softer)

Liz

Scurra, you live less than an hour's drive from one of the finest violin-making schools in Europe (Newark). Their best graduating students turn out very, very nice work that would be well within your budget. With a bit of luck you might end up with a violin from the next Roger Hargrave, Patrick Robin or Neil Ertz!

Thank to everyone: don't worry about confusing me, I can get my head round it! I'm using Dominants on the Paesold, and they seem to muffle the sound a bit: maybe it'll open it up if I change strings...

It's unlikely that the strings will be muffling the fiddle, to be honest - the changes made by just changing strings are really very subtle.

Is it muffled when you play in first position, or only when you shift to higher positions? Is it muffled on one string in one position more than in any other?

That's unlikely - Dominants don't have a muffled sound and a violin opens up in the first few weeks of playing, and certainly within the first two years.

If you want louder you could try Evahs or Zyex or even Helicores. But the word "muffled" suggests to me that you might be looking at something as simple as a moved soundpost. The source you got it from is, or at least used to be, one of the most reputable in the midlands so it seems to me to be unlikely that it has always been muffled - at least, if your understanding of muffled is the same as mine (word descriptions of tone aren't always easy!)

Liz

Think I meant "muffled" more in the sense of not being able to unleash a full enough body of sound - mind you, that might just be my playing!

If you just want more volume there are a couple of things you could try as an interim measure. The obvious one is to change the strings, but you might also find that a heavier bow will make it easier to get more volume. Of course you have to balance that with the fact that playing off the string will be more difficult. Or you could try experimenting with rosins - I find Pirastro Goldflex gives a fair old "bite"

Liz

Hmm - true. I don't really want to lose the versatility...
I use the Pirastro Gold (not Goldflex) at the moment.