Please can any of you offer some advice please. My daughter (11) currently has just started her Grade 7 pieces. She had a lovely teacher, but we decided it was time for a change for a number of reasons none of which was to do with her previous teacher whom she still goes to for singing.

The new teacher is 24 a post grad at one of the music colleges. He is a nice person, but daughter is not happy. There are several reasons, for one is her bow hold. She adopted the hold of her previous teacher but apparently it is wrong. It hurts her hand to play as the new teacher wants after a while. Old teacher says there is more than one way to hold a bow. New teacher is forever telling her about her sticking her tummy out, relaxing shoulders the list goes on.

What do you guys think, is there a right way and a wrong way to play and hold your bow, does each person adopt their own style.

Daughter is fed up and not keen on going to lessons, motivation is low. They spend whole lessons on standing straight and holding her bow. I spoke to new teacher and he was going to try a different approach next week. But I am worried she will want to give it up. No one else has said anything to us, she has even been told how well she stands at Festivals.

Take a close look at some of the clips on YouTube of various violinists. There are lots of different ways to stand and more than one way to hold your bow. If she has got to Grade 7 so far, then I can't see she is doing too much wrong.

There are certainly wrong ways, but several right ways, and the teacher should not insist on his way bing the only right way, especially after all this time.

I think you need a more flexible teacher who is not so set in their ways. This would be fine if she was just starting, but not now.

I'm sorry to sound negative but this sounds very strange. Your daughter is obviously very enthusiastic, talented and commited to her music to have reached that standard for her age.

What does this new teacher think he is doing if he is getting so bogged down with technical details that he is dampening her natural enthusiasm for music??!! I'm guessing that he is young, inexperienced with this age group and, even if he is a fantastic player himself, possibly lacks the experience necessary at this crucial stage of your daughter's development.

Seek your old teacher's advice as soon as possible.

As Janexxx has said, there are several ways to hold a bow. I really sympathise as I went through this years ago. I was happy with my first teacher's bow hold but then she moved away. My second teacher in many ways was better but wanted to change my bowing and I never felt comfortable with it, to the point of developing aches and pains (this teacher was always complaining that I was tense) and in the end I stopped my lessons though I carried on playing. A few years later I went to a third teacher who used a hold much more like the original one - I immediately felt comfortable again, my tone blossomed, I could play for hours, and I was told how nice and relaxed I was!

This is not to say that teacher 2 was wrong - but though it worked for her it didn't work for me.

It sounds as if this young postgrad doesn't really have enough teaching experience.

There are two main bow-holds: the Russian and the Franco-Belgian.

With the Russian bow-hold the arm is inclined to the left, with the index finger lying down on the stick with the main knuckle on the stick. The little finger is straight and often comes off the bow altogether when playing at the point end of the bow.

With the Franco-Belgian bow-hold, the arm is generally less inclined to the left, and the part of the index finger that touches the bow is about a centimetre above the main knuckle. The little finger is curved.

The Franco-Belgian bow-hold seems to be more commonly taught these days than the Russian bow-hold - I don't really know why - perhaps it's just a fashion thing.

However, I would firmly state that there are a few factors that make an unsatisfactory bow-hold. They are:

A rigidly straight thumb, or a thumb that bends backwards. This causes tension in the wrist and makes fast playing very difficult.

Fingers that are too wide apart - this can cause rigidity, pain and tension.

An index finger placed too far forward, ie too far from the other fingers.

AS for not sticking her tummy out, and relaxing shoulders - well the teacher's right to remind about both these things, but not to the extent of destroying her pleasure in violin-playing. There are tactful ways to remind without putting noses out of joint!

But at the same time I wouldn't assume that reacing Grade 7 means all is well posture-wise. It may well not be, and for your daughter to realise her potential some things may well need to be changed - just not all at once, and not by a teacher obsessing about them! Softly softly catchee the monkey etc etc...

Fingers perched too high on the stick - this causes a loss of control of the bow.

Fingers too far along the bow (away from the frog) - this causes too little of the bow to be used.

A wrist that is too high in relation to the fingers - this will cause tension.

A wrist that is too low in relation to the fingers - more tension again.

A claw-like hand - definitely too much tension.


If your daughter's bow-hold contains any of or a combination of any of the above factors then I would say her teacher is right to attempt to put her bow-hold right. But if she has a good, relaxed Russian or Franco-Belgian bow-hold then he would be very wrong to try and change her bow-hold from one to the other. Once a good bow-hold is established, either basically Russian or basically Franco-Belgian, it is virtually impossible to change to the other one, or nor should anyone need to - both bow-holds are good and effective.

But even if she has some tension or lack of mobility caused by any of the factors on the list, I believe a good teacher won't harp on about it too much but just gently and good-humouredly remind. Also, I don't think a teacher should try and change too many things at once. Just a thumb for a few weeks, and then a too-far-forward finger for another few weeks. No student can possibly be expected to remember to change more than one thing at a time while trying to learn new pieces of music!

I agree with Violinia about the straight/curved thumb being more of an issue than the straight/curved little finger.

Son Viohazard had (has ) a truly horrible bow-hold that had gone uncorrected for years, yet taken him well past his Grade 5 exam (he was just playing Beethoven romances when he came to his new teacher, and they started out with Mozart concertos and solo Bach, if that's any guidance).

This teacher makes him practice "walking" his fingers up and down the vertically held bow-stick, saying that whatever hold he uses, if he can't do that without keeping the bowstick almost straight, or dropping it, he doesn't have enough control.

Must sound convincing, because Viohazard actually does it!

Oh gosh. I remember when I first started learning the cello (15 years ago). It was so cumbersome to master holding the bow correctly, and even to this day, I evidently make a few errors.

The only advice I could offer for you and your daughter is this: Practice bow-holding simultaneously with every bit of music during individual practice sessions (scales, etudes, pieces, EVERYTHING), and of course with your teacher as well.

Have you asked why he wants to change the bow hold? As violinia says there may be a good reason why she needs to change. As has been said before playing at a high level doesn't automatically mean that all is correct technically. My own son plays at grade 8 level but his cello bow hold is still a work in progress! Musical children will often play well regardless of technique.
Part of the problem may be that she just hasn't got used to the new teacher and his ways. If she was with, and still is with, her old teacher for a number of years it will take a while to get used to and to trust a new teacher.

My wife, who is a violin specialist, considers the Franco-Belgian bowhold to be best used for Baroque and Classical works but that the Auer (Russian bowhold) is much better used for Romantic works as it gives a much richer, fuller sound.
For further reading, look at 'The Seven Fundamental Movements of Bowing Techniques' found in 'The Art of Violin Playing' Volumes 1 & 2 by Carl Flesch.
See Alexander Technique for tension issues as violin playing should feel 'natural'- apparently, a lot of tension can be avoided by not 'locking the knees' but instead by keeping them loose.
Hope some of this may be of help.
Good luck!