HELLO!!!!
my violin teacher talked to me about harmonics (true and 'false' ones) and how to do them, but this was 2 lessons ago when he also talked to me about a load of other stuff and it was too much info for me in one sitting!! hence I cannot remember a thing about them
At the end of one of my grade 3 pieces (Rumba, C3) you have to play a 'true' harmonic on A string, well, now I know it's on A string, whilst I war learning the piece didn't have a clue!!!!
I knew that to play harmonics you just 'touch' the string and bow away, well, that's all I knew, nothing else! So I tried to play some and all I got was HORRENDOUS screeches and noises, so gave that one up!
On my last lesson my teacher showed me how to play the true harmonic in my grade 3 piece (on A string, roughly half way from nut to bridge) and I played it really really well, sounded heaven!!!
To 'experiment' I tried to place my little finger on other spots of the A string and got just horrendous noises!
So in my 'dull brain' I realised that obviously you 'have to touch the string in a specific spot' for it to 'sing/whistle' otherwise you get disaster! Can someone enlighten me about 'false harmonics' please?? how do I know which ones they are, what to press with my fingers and where to 'touch' with my little fingers to get a nice whistle? Or is there somewhere I can read about it?
I am going to be hospitalised for 5 days from tomorrow, maybe I can take some 'light reading' to hospital with me??? or at least I can sit and think of all that you will tell me in this thread
thank youuuuuuuuuuuuu

Exploration is the key hehehe. My teacher once showed me false harmonics and he told me that I could explore it myself. Basically, place your 1st finger on say...the A string and lightly touch your 4th on where you normally play E. Then, shift up to 2nd pos and then 3rd and so on, all the while, keeping the 1st and 4th fingers in that position. Some positions will have nice sounds and others will be squeaks and scratches. Nice ones are false harmonics, squeaks and scratches are not. Then, try it with just your 2nd finger on the 1st pos and shift up. I'm not sure about 3rd finger but you can always try! I always remembered the description my "A Tune A Day" book had about harmonics. Harmonics are flute-like sounds that are emitted from the violin when a finger is placed lightly on the string. *grin*

Regarding true harmonics, there are quite a few. 3rd and 4th fingers in 1st pos are harmonics, stretching from 3rd position with your little finger gives you another harmonics and I believe there are 2 more in the very high positions. At least, that's what I've found. I have no idea which high positions they are...I didn't count and I don't possess a good enough pitch to tell what note it is.

mmmmmm will experiment today as my next chance after today will be next week when I am out of hospital and hopefully well enough to practice again thanks for that andromeda

I think by 'false harmonics' you mean artificial harmonics.

With artificial harmonics you stop the string with the first finger pressed down hard, then use another finger lightly touching the same string to produce the harmonic.

With the first finger pressed down hard, if you lightly touch the string with the fourth finger in exactly the right place you should get a note sounding at 2 octaves above the first finger note.
If you use the first finger pressed down hard and touch the string lightly with the third finger you sound a note at 2 octaves and a third above the first finger note.
If you use the first finger pressed down hard and touch the string lightly with the fourth finger extended by a tone you sound an octave and a fifth above the first finger note.

There are also several other natural harmonics as well as the one you mentioned:
If, in first position, you lightly touch the string with the second finger you should get a note sounding 2 octaves above the note that the second finger would normally play.
If, in first position, you lightly touch the string with the third finger you should get a note sounding 2 octaves above the open string.
If, in first position, you lightly touch the string with the fourth finger you should get a note sounding 1octave above the note that the fourth finger would normally play.
If, in first position you lightly touch the string with the extended fouth finger you should get a note sounding 2 octaves and a third above the open string.

this is getting all too exciting, can't wait to try it out!

Hope it's not too serious and Get Well Soon. Poor old Figaro will miss his twanging

I will be alright Lottie, I wish I could take Figaro with me though

Isn't an apt example of these 'false' harmonics in the 2005-2007 grade 7 piece, Kujawiak by Wienawski? I remember the last few bars are chock full of these.

Basically...artificial harmonics are ones that you have to press a finger on the fingerboard hee.

I'm so glad jojo brought this up as this has really clarified a lot for me on this subject. So thankyou P.V. and jojo (get well soon!).

I've looked at the Grade 3 Rumba and the last note is A, say in first position on the E string 3rd finger, with a little circle above it.

Does the circle mean harmonic?.. and how would you play that one.. with your fourth finger? *still very confused as no-one had demonstrated it to me*

I don't have that piece, but it sounds like a natural harmonic on the A string at the note that is one octave above the open A string ie half way along the A string. The harmonic and the normally stopped note at this position sound at the same pitch.

^ Sounds like that to me too - don't have any eloquence to explain it today so glad that PV has done it!

I tend to find that natural harmonic by bringing my hand right up the neck of the violin, further over the instrument, and stretching the little finger. It seems to get me in the right place!

I remember doing a video (unless I'm totally forgetting...) for joyjoy a while back because I couldn't explain it in words, unfortunately it's long since been deleted on my pc! But that natural harmonic is the one thing I've always been able to "just do" on violin, I'm quite fond of it

hello Lottie,
am writing this from my hospital bed (have e-mail access from bedside, how good is that?)
am recovering really well and will go home later today!

About the harmonic in Rumba, it is a natural harmonic on A string, my teacher showed it to me last week. It is half way between nut and bridge, to find it place your hand in third position, 1st finger on D, then extend your fourth finger on string, release first finger from D and keep lightly touching the string with 4th stretched finger, now bow away and if you don't hear it right then while you are bowing slide your 4th finger slightly whilst still gently touching and not pressing the string, you should find it quick enough trust me!
have fun, and i will check back in this evening from my own pc

Interesting stuff

The next study in my book has several harmonics littered throughout the piece, some notes with 0 above the note which is take to mean a natural harmonic, and some with a 4 and 0 above the note....which is where it gets confusing......

Could someone explain? Thanks.

(Sorry - next lesson not for 3 weeks and I'd like to give harmonics a go....)

Get well soon Jo and try to get the balance between enough rest and enough movement, exercise and effort.

Thank you, I am home now and I think I am doing enough of what you said: balancing movement, excersise and effort

May I say that you've been incredibly upbeat about going into hospital - a reflection of your profession, perchance?

All the best

xxx

I think that plus the fact that I've had 4 operations before (you kinda get used to the thing)
I will try to play figaro today and see if I can last 10 minutes have dreamt about him last night, that he was stolen, all I could find was my empty case, maybe a sign that I miss playing him too much??

Sounds like it! In one of my dreams I was forced to sight-read from the other side of the room....okay the notes were tea-cup sized but

Rest up today..xxx

my old music teacher wasn't English and she said that English books for teaching this and shifting were rubbish.

She got me one of her own muisc books in her language and guided me through it. It was all simple and logical and I got most of the harmonics first go.

The methods you guys are describing sound an awful lot more difficut than the way I was started learning so maybe there is some truth in what my teacher said.

All the best for hospital

I think you'll find THAT is the biggest difference - demonstrating harmonics to someone takes a lot less time and effort than trying to explain them in written words, and a teacher's guidance will make a big difference.

I don't think I EVER had a book that had anything about harmonics in it, and had very few that related to position changing - - but I had a good teacher...

Maybe......

But by guide me through it, I meant that I cannot read or understand her language.

She told me that the exercises used in English books that enable you to learn shifting and harmonics are not very good and the excercises in books from her country are simpler and better for beginners.

I guess you'd have to see the exercises to compare.

I realise that, but there is STILL a vast difference between a teacher explaining an exercise and trying to understand it from a page of text which doesn't even include musical notation - which is what people are trying to do here. Just seeing someone do a shift or play a harmonic - even without any explanation - will demonstrate something that no amount of text will explain as clearly.

Well I had a couple of books about shifting as I recall, and they were fine - and, like I say, never had a book which touched on harmonics. I still learned both.

Having a teacher, will make much, much more of a difference than which book one uses. *I* have taught vibrato and harmonics to other violinists and violists (without books!!!), and I'm not much of a string player, never mind a string teacher. Maybe your teacher's books are better (though I don't think the books we have are so bad as far as I've seen). But it's so different to attempting to explain online, that what book one is using (or not) is hardly relevant.

^ Well thesre were exercises in this foreign book to teach harmonics and she did guide me through ti step by step or there is no way I would have understood.

I wouldn't really know about other books.... this one seems pretty good though.