No matter what I do...even at the point of writing flats beside the notes on my scale book for Bb minor, I still can't it the sound of it. It sounds so weird. Is there anything I can do?

What finger pattern are you using?

Can you play Bm OK or Am OK? - can you use the same finger pattern in a different position?

Try starting with Bb on the first finger

The one in 1st position. I first encountered it in the Scales Book 1 for Grades 1-5. I was at home in Singapore so I managed to learn and memorize the scale purely by the 'brute force' method but now it seems I can't get it to sound right at all. I don't even dare play it actually. My teacher has gotten me onto Book 2 now even though he states I'm only at Grade 4 standard (I don't take exams). Am is fine. I don't think I've encountered Bm yet. =)

Although this isn't correct, it helps me to work out scales as I'm rather sharp orientated

Take Bb major as the baseline. If you think in terms of sharps instead....play C# instead of Db (= D in the major scale) followed by Eb, and F# instead of Gb (=G in the major scale) followed by A. It's only the "sharps" that are different anyhow in the Bb minor scale.

Hope this helps?!

Major: Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb
Minor: Bb, C, "C#", Eb, F, "F#", A, Bb

I'm afraid that I learn scales purely by sound (mostly). Rather like my teacher. The harmonic's fine because I kinda know when is the raised 7th but the melodic just messes my brain up. =) C# minor is another one! Argghh...anyone have suggestions on how to manage that huge stretch to the last note on the 3 octave D major scale?

Does anyone else find violin scales really hard, or is it just me?

I find some majors fairly easy and have now committed to memory: C, G, D, A, E, B, F, but I am struggling to learn Bb and Ab. Although I now know the logistics of them, I still have to have the piece of paper in front of me to be able to play them. Grr. Also, minors, don't get me started, I can never remember the melodic changes!! I know the degrees to flatten in theory but what gets me mixed up is having to count 'backwards' (so to speak) when you start going down the scale.

It's even more frustrating because I find scales so easy on the piano, it really is more of a visual thing and I can play all of them straight off without thinking, even minors. On the violin, I rely more on sound, obviously, and again I run into problems where I can't hear how it should go when I'm playing it backwards. I guess I just need to work on my intervals going down the scale...

So I sympathise with you entirely AA! Sorry not much help, but just thought I would add my 2p worth.

Oh and my favourite scale at the moment is D minor

So forget playing Bb minor is first position, play it in a low 2nd position, like Am but just a bit further up the fingerboard

Are you allowed to play scales in any position that you want in an exam, or do they specify?

Any position. The fingering in the scale books is guidance, not a requisite.

Ok, thank you

Ah the melodic minor.....can't help you there although I know what it sounds like. Sorry completely unhelpful comment...

I think it's swings and roundabouts... you CAN play them by ear which makes it easier in many ways, but then you have to keep them in tune yourself


^ yup, as long as you play them in tune etc then the examiner won't care!

If you make up weird fingering that makes you go wrong then you'll lose marks, though.

I don't have much problems with the major scales. It's the minors...ESPECIALLY the melodic minors which I loath. I'm fine with the harmonic...I kind of automatically just do the raised 7th. For the melodic...it's weird. The ascending part...it sometimes sounds like the major scale...the only minor scale I'm really confident of doing is the A minor lol.

Bb minor in 2nd position? Lol...I'm not that comfortable in 2nd position but I'll give it a go tomorrow. I'll see how it turns out. Thanks for the suggestions! Thing is...the Bb minor scale I have is the Gr6-8 one so it's the 3 octave one.

Just put your first finger on Bb instead of A. Don't worry about it being in 2nd position!

I've got a question. Does the ascending part of the melodic minor scale sound like the major scale? I don't really know. I don't think it does but sometimes when I play, I can't help but feel it sounds like it...or maybe it's just me drifting into the major scale. I was warned about that by my teacher when he taught me Db major. He told me it was really easy to drift into the D major scale if I wasn't careful.

Sarah, is the fingering (as in the spacing and all) for Bb the same as Am?

If you start with the first finger on the relevant note, you can effectively play any scale with the same fingering more or less. Use your ears

Melodic minor desecending has the same key signature as the relative major, so especially when you are mid scale it can sound major. It is also the same notes as the aeolian mode or natural minor, which is the set of intervals you would get if you started on A on a piano and played all the white notes. Or in solfa, la to la.

Sorry to jump in on this one, but I don't agree with playing Bb minor in second position. For a start it throws out the entire flow of shifting for a three octave scale. The opening octave should be played in first.

The biggest problem most people have, and therefore shirk away from (even become down right lazy about), is the stretch back to half-position for the Eb. Most pupils also hate 1st finger Bb on the A-string, 2nd finger C and then the shift to Db for the 1st finger on the A-string. The simplest answer is to use your ears to guide your fingers. Intervals in some of the minor scales are big, but if your playing is to improve and you want it to improve, you will have to train your hand to reach them.

Take the time to play it the way the book suggests first and then practice it with other fingerings. Never just opt for the easiset route, because when the scale crops up in a piece of music, you'll need to be thinking on your feet to play all the other notes around it.

It also pays to use stretches in the fingers - stretching back with the first for example - as this will train your fingers not only to be more independent of each other, but additionally provides improved general mobility and strength of the left hand.

Not if you go up to first finger on every octave, which is how I play every three octave scale from B flat upwards.

Liz

That's rather cheating and a very lazy way of playing scales. It doesn't prepare anyone for playing scales in the real world, ie. when they appear in various guises in a work.

I've just started teaching an 8-year-old her violin scales by a different method. Because she loves The Sound of Music and knows the Doh, a Deer song, she's easily able to sing a major scale in solfah: doh, re, mi, fa, soh, la ti, doh.

We pluck a D string and get her to sing a major scale in solfah starting on D. Then I pick any random note (within her voice range) and get her to start on that note instead but do the same thing - sing the major scale in solfah. Then another note, and another, until she can do it starting on any note.

Then I get her to pick up the violin, and I say 'put your first finger on A on the G string and do the same thing but this time playing the notes on the violin with your eyes shut'. And you know what? She played a scale of A, with the correct higher third finger for her C# and G#! And she hasn't officially learnt her A scale starting on the D string yet!

I'm positive this is the best way to learn the scales - by ear. Then no serious worries about remembering them, or having to know complicated fingerings - every scale just becomes the same series of intervals (after all, that's what scales are) but from a different starting point.

Hope that helps...

If you find it easy to play them on the piano, play them through on the piano but practise listening very closely to the sound, both up and down. Play a Bb scale on the piano, carefully memorising every step and then immediately pick up your violin and copy exactly what you just heard, playing with your eyes shut, thinking less about fingering than about replicating the sound; you can always sort out the correct fingering later. The important thing is to get away from thinking of the scales as fundamentally different from each other and into thinking of them as an identical thing from different starting points. Which is what they are after all..

That's the issue. I learn my scales by ear which is why, unless I know how it sounds, I can't replicate it. I've tried playing according to the book, with flats next to the notes that are flat but I still can't 'understand' the sound.

In that case, if you just need to get the sound of a melodic minor, I strongly advise you to go to a keyboard or piano.

Use the scale of A melodic minor as it's the easiest.

Ascending - A, B, C, D, E, F#, G#, A
Descending- All the white notes ie naturals

Thinking about it, you should be able to do the same on the violin starting on the open A....

Good luck!

This is the way that scales are taught in France, and surprisingly, they don't get any consideration until the student can play the instrument relatively well - then they're used as technique building exercises, but finding them and playing them is usually done by ear with a strong focus on interval relationships.

I don't have any problems so far with the other minor keys. It's just this one lol. I'll give it a go when I have the time! Thanks!