I'm not very happy with my tone, and, being a bad viola player, I naturally blame my tools rather than myself. I'd quite like to try a different rosin - maybe that green one that rosfrog mentioned (Jade, I think). But I'm not sure how to go about this. As I understand it, before changing to a different rosin you have to get all of the old stuff off the bow. And that, it seems, is quite a performance - there was a thread about it a few weeks ago. It might almost be worth getting a new bow rather than go through all that (bearing in mind that my bow didn't cost much).

But this makes me wonder about how buying a bow works. I know you are supposed to go and try several in the shop. (I couldn't do this last time because I barely knew which end of the bow was which.) But you can't try a bow without putting rosin on it, and you only buy one of the bows you try; so all the others will be gunked up with rosin before someone else buys them. What if the someone else wants to use some other rosin? How does that work?

The bow you use is just as important as your violin - so I can see why you'd like to give other bows a try. I won't tell you how many bows I've amassed but each has been instrumental in my progress thus far.

A brand new bow needs a lot of playing in - for this reason our local violin shop has a paid 'helper' whose job it is to play the violins and bows (old and new) that are on sale (what a job! ) so that they are kept in 'shape' for customers. (The same applies in museums with old violin collections).

The bow you buy is 'new' in a sense.......but in a much more playable condition that if you'd bought it 'brand new and unused'.

If you are serious about buying a bow, a reputable violin shop will allow you to trial several in the shop and then take a small selection home for a week or two. I was asked to leave a nominal deposit of £5 which I thought was very reasonable but I should imagine this varies. I'm not experienced enough with different rosin types to advise you on that front (I use Jade and it seems fine) but I'm sure others will help.

Good luck!

When I changed rosin, I was alright, because I changed away from one that I was physically not strong enough to open, so it had none on anyway!

Buying a new bow - there are a fair few shops, I think, that will allow you to go along and try out the bows they have. My one is (I think) second hand anyhoo, so it's beautiful!

I had that problem with the first rosin I bought - can't remember the name. It was in a round, shiny metal tin. Even with 3 rubber bands on it, it failed to open so I gave up. Needless to say I never used it much.

I tried out some old (and very expensive) bows at the shop - wow! Can't say I justify the expense yet but they were fabulous. I also 'played' a £20,000 violin which had the most amazing tone although I didn't do justice to it really.

*dreams*

I don't think you need to get all the old rosin off. I just use the bow without putting rosin on for a couple of practises then start using the new stuff. If you want to start with clean hair on the bow then you can get it rehaired - which might be due anyway if you've practised daily for more than about 6 - 9 months. This costs about £30 so whether it is worth it depends a bit on the cost of the bow.

Or you could just clean the rosin off the hair as I do from time to time, i.e. once or twice a year.

Unscrew the frog completely and lift it out carefully. Take a shallow plate like a dinner plate, lay the bow stick beside it and drape the hair on the plate, making sure you don't put any strain on the wedge fixing at the tip of the stick. Pour a little meths into the plate and swish the hair in it, letting it soak for about ten minutes. Keep the meths off the stick! Then lift the hair out and wipe down with some kitchen towel. If there was a lot of rosin, the hair will still feel very sticky, so just repeat the process. Let it dry completely (a couple of hours) and then reassemble and re-rosin.

This isn't as scary as it sounds, and I find it improves the sound. I also regularly use a little meths on a folded paper towel or soft cloth to clean the strings.

I also think it is worth paying for good rosin. I like the Liebenzeller Gold which gives me a better tone without any extra effort -- almost a free lunch! I have had it for ten years now and there is still at least half of it left, so even though it was expensive at £7 rather than £1.50, it has been very good value.

I heard too many people recommending the liebenzeller gold, I'm off to buy it now and will follow your instructions to clean my bow which has now been used for 10 months (maybe I'll go for a change of strings too )

PS 10 years ago it might have been £7, it is now £15.50 (can't find it any cheaper), but still worth it if it will last me that long!

I don't particularly want a new bow at present: I'm sure my current bow is good enough to get me a lot further than where I am. But I've had it for nearly a year, and I practise quite a lot. If it's time for a fresh lot of hair, I'm reluctant to spend as much on rehairing as I did on the bow! So maybe I should think about a new bow that will be worth rehairing in a year's time.

The washing-with-meths technique does sound scary. Isn't it hard to get the hair back in the stick?

Anyway I still don't understand what happens when you buy a bow. Do they let you put your preferred rosin on each bow you try? Even if they do, surely there isn't much point if the bow has already got some other rosin on it?

Cool!

I played about £8000 worth of cello a while back - it just sang, no effort required... lovely!

Rosin will go off (hard, brittle, unusable) if it gets too old.

It just makes you wonder though sometimes, as students, finding it hard to get a very good tone, you would think it is US who need the instruments which play so well, not the experts?? presumably Maxim Vengerov and Pearlman and co. will make any violin sound good? or am I wrong?

I think Vengerov, Perlman, etc etc, will make a naff violin sound good, but will also be able to get all the possible nuances out of a really great violin.

Basically, it's doubtful that I'll ever be any good at playing in 9th position on the E string, no matter what fiddle you give me!

That said, that cello was so gorgeous... *covet*

*cough* buy it *cough* - who needs both kidneys anyway?

I bought the Liebenzeller gold a couple of weeks ago and I can't believe how much difference a rosin can make!!!!

Sorry JoJo, I bought it from the shop that sells it for £15.50 (instead of £27) and the chap said I'd bought the last one....

I just gave the bow a wipe with a soft cloth and then didn't put any new rosin on for a couple of days and then started using the new stuff. I always rub the rosin off the strings as well as the violin after each time I play.

I dream of going into a violin shop and 'trying out' violins.. even playing in 9th position on the E string because at the moment I'd be too embarrassed playing Jingle Bells in first (well, not quite but you know what I mean .) I'd love to be able to play a violin straight across the range and with enough skill to test it's dynamics and tone. I can recognise these things already but my Grade 3 playing is hardly a big test Oh and the same for testing new bows..... *joins the dreaming*

We do. In fact one of the things that constantly amazes me is when bows come back from approval so inadequately rosined that they slide all over the strings. I often wonder how on earth anyone expects to be able to choose a bow when they can hardly get a sound out of it!

I wouldn't worry about rosin at your level, I very much doubt if it is going to make much difference.

Liz

Fair enough. But I'm finding that I need to apply more and more rosin, and more often, to get something approaching the desired effect. Changing strings (from Dominants to Helicores) seems to have improved my tone, so I thought a change of rosin might also be worth a try.

Neither strings nor bow hair last for ever. I am not surprised that buying a new set of strings improved the tone - a new set of Dominants would probably have improved it too. If the bow will not hold the rosin as you describe then I doubt it's the rosin. I suspect you need a rehair. Or by all means make this the point at which you buy a better bow if the cost of your current one does not justify £30 to rehair, that will help your playing too.

I only play about 3 hours per week but, as an indication, my daughter plays the cello and between various things probably plays about 14 hours per week. She needs a rehair and new strings every 6 months. The bowmaker who does the rehair says 3-6 months is about right - but then he would wouldn't he!

It's not for sale anyway!

it sounds to me as if the bow hair is the problem. If it's not economic to rehair it, get a new bow.

Liz

OK. Since rehairing would cost as much as my current bow, it seems more sensible to buy a new bow. And I expect it's true that, at my level, it doesn't much matter what rosin I use. (The strings do matter, though: my Dominants were quite new when I replaced them.)

But my puzzlement remains, even if it won't affect me directly until I get a lot better. Suppose I am an advanced player and I always use rosin A. I want a new bow. All the bows I try have previously been tried by other prospective purchasers, so they have rosin B, C or D on them. Do I just have to put up with the remnants of someone else's rosin until it's time for a rehair? Or maybe I just get the bow rehaired immediately, or attack it with meths?

I'd just use my own rosin, it will have an effect.

Liz

That's ok, I've spent just over £30 in strings today (even though I won't change them until december or january) as I just couldn't resist....can't wait to put them on as I do want to try this 'Hill soft E' that everybody speaks highly about, I wonder if with that string I'll sound a little better on the E? So anyway, because of this expense I won't buy rosin until my birthday in november, by then they'll have new stock I am sure if not I'll come up north and nick yours Lottie

It's like getting your first car, isn't it? You can only afford an old banger that needs a lot of tricks to keep it going OK, so a new driver becomes amazingly proficient at dealing with quirks etc, then moves on to a decent model later on. With string playing, if we can get a decent sound out of a Stentor Student model, then we can do OK on more or less anything. I must say though, that my first viola, a Schroetter 060 in disguise as a Paesold, couldn't make a decent sound of anyone! Much prefer my new model, which will have to do me for years to come, I daresay.

Oh, bubbles to it. I may be too ill for it, but I'm off to prac for a bit!!!

It is quite easy -- really you have only taken the frog out, not the hair. It just slots back in its groove, then you insert the screw again.