i've beeen doing grade 5 theory for a while since i need it for grade six practical but i have never been able to understand chords at cadential points. Can any body help please? any infomation or guidence would be welcomed with open arms

In grade 5 theory you have to know the 4 cadences.

These are:

• Perfect Cadence - V - I
• Plagal Cadence - IV - I
• Imperfect Cadence - V
• Interrupted Cadence - V - VI

If I remember correctly for grade 5 you have to identify the cadences in a excerpt? So all you need to do is look at which chords are used in the excerpt. In an 8 bar pieces of music you will often have an imperfect cadence at bar 4 and then a perfect or plagal cadence at bar 8.

• Bar 4
• Bar 8
• Bar 12
• The last bar

It will usually be in one of them if I remember correctly. If not, then just carry on looking.

Does that help at all?

thanks for replying

but how do i work out I, II, IV or V?

all they give you are a few notes!

e.g. GGGF

Firstly identify the key signature. Then identify the chords used, they should give you a few notes?

Are you using Music Theory in Practice Grade 5? If so, what particular question are you stuck on?

have a look at this;

http://www.musictheory.halifax.ns.ca/22cadences.html

I think it is best not to worry about what cadance it is but just stick to which chord fits most of the notes in the section marked. Work out the key the piece is in then write out the notes for each of the triads. Eg in C major the triads are

I - C,E,G
II - D,F,A
IV - F,A,C
V - G,B,D

If all the notes in the section marked fit in one of the above triads then you have your answer. Otherwise you may find that there is just one semiquaver or something which doesn't match but perhaps three longer notes which do fit one chord then you ignore the one that doesn't fit and pick the chord with the best fit. Given the example of C major if you had GGGB it would be V if you had FGAC it would be IV as long as the G was not an important note

Hope that helps a bit - best to work some examples and post them up if you can't spot it

yes i am using that book and it is the whole of excersise 36



what about GGGF in f major? can it be II or V

That would be a II, the F is just a passing note which leads down to E D C....the D being a passing note

Excercise 36 question a?

thanks a million sarahsax!

For Grade 5 you only need to know 3 cadences:

Perfect - V - I
Plagal - IV - I
Imperfect - any chord followed by V. At Grade 5 this is most likely to be I, II or IV

What I get my pupils to do is to write out which notes occur in each of the chords I, II, IV and V as they are the only ones you need for the above cadences at Grade5. Then we look at the last note of the cadence. This can only be chord I or chord V (remember this only applies for Grade 5; take theory at a higher level and there are more). Look at the notes in the melody and see which chord 'fits' best. Then look at the chord before the last one - if the final chord of the cadence was I then the one before has to be either IV or V - look at the melody and see which one fits best. If the final chord was V, then I, II or IV go in fron of it - again look at the melody. It's usually really clear which chords it has to be.

To find out whether a diatonic chord is in root position sort out the notes so that it stacks in thirds. All chords based on tridads will do that. Do watch out for passing notes, and in later grades suspensions. It is when a chord won't stack in thirds (even with gaps) you get the feeling that you are dealing with something exotic like an augmented sixth chord. Again that doesn't come in until beyond Grade 5, but its still worthwhile knowing there is an exception to the rule.

Cadences
Perfect V-I
Imperfect ?-V usually 1-V but not necessarily so
Plagal IV -I
(interrupted ? -VI -usually V-VI)

This is the easiest method for my pupils too IMHO.

This thread = LIFE SAVER today! Thanks guys!

thanks to every one who has made a contribution

He's got it spot on -it took me at least 10 years and a host of cxxxxxxxxx teachers to get it right !

But I still don't entirely understand it.

Can you be more specific?

Okay, well for Ex36 A in G5 Theory in Practice (the here we go round the mulberry bush one - in F major) I put II for space one (GBD because there's three G's and it seems to fit) and V for space 2 (CEG because there's E D C and it seems to be the right idea) so that would be an imperfect cadence?

For B - it's in G major - there's only an E for above the first space so I think it should be a IV because that's an ACE triad? The next one I'd go I as it's GD so GBD fits, Third B so I can have either I (GBD) or V (BDF) and I don't know what to go for and the 4th space has me completely stumped because there's only an A so either II (FAC) or IV (ACE) and that results in there not being any cadence so I DON'T KNOW!!!

Argh, help somebody, please!

Yup, that's right


You're a bit muddled here. In G major chord I has the notes G,B,D; chord II has the notes A,C,E; chord IV is C,E,G; chord V is D,F#,A. You seem to have worked out some of the notes in your chords as though the key is E minor. Some of them seem to be in G major, and some seem to be in E minor. Have another go with all the chords in G major and it should all fall into place.

Hmm, thanks for that... my chord layout seemed to go I, Vii, II, III!!! I'm not entirely sure how...but I think I went down one from G instead of up! Just like I mix 7ths with 9ths...ah well!!! Thanks for noticing my stupidity!!!