Does anyone other than me just find these impossible? Not the C major ones - the ones where you choose your group and play each major and harmonic minor a third apart? On the easier ones I am ok going up but can't play them on the way down at all, others I just can't do.

Don't get me started on first inversion arpeggios... grrr...

Hi! Which group have you chosen?

It's group 2 .

They are a nightmare, you are right.

What helped me on the thirds was to go back to practicing very, very slowly and really looking at what my hands were doing. On the way down, focus on what your LH is doing.

What helped me with first version arpeggios was to always do the root arpeggio first (which I sometimes discovered was forgotten!), then move onto the first inversion and only do one scale at a time until it was memorized.

What pieces have you chosen for Grade 7? There are some really lovely ones this year I would like to have in my own repertoire.

Thanks, I'm playing the Beethoven in C minor, Schumann's Traumerei and Bonsor's Wagglestick - I love that one.

I like scales in thirds (and sixths too).
Takes a little getting in to but good when you get the coordination.
Coming down is harder to get going.
Sometimes it helps to play, not think.

I generally find 1st inversion arpeggios lie better under the fingers than all other inversions (including root position).

Perhaps I am just useless then .

Absolutely not! Almost everyone has problems with 3rds at first. Start with one octave - very slowly then go on to the 2nd octave. Some of the minors in group 2 are awkward so build them up starting with 5 notes if necessary. Descending - concentrate on your RH, the LH, if the fingering is secure is playing the scale as it always has, the RH needs to get used to starting and ending on the mediant.

sbhoa - I found 3rds ok, but the 6ths gave me a challenge at first.

Just remember where your finger 4's go. It works a treat. For example, in D major the RH 4 always lands on the note C# up and down. The LH 4 always lands on the E. If you say to yourself - 'only put my 4s on those letters and nowhere else I can't go wrong' Of course, you'll need to apply it to Group 2 as I think D major is in Group 1.

I love the sound of thirds and sixths - especially if you start them one octave apart for fun.

Yes, I've just been revising them myself as I've got to teach Grade 7 this coming year. I find the 4th finger thing useful but I try also to keep in mind the fact that scales are built on a 3 finger / 4 finger pattern. Sometimes it helps to let the "normal' hand play on automatic pilot and watch the hand that starts on the mediant. You can also vary the practice by playing hands a tenth apart. And slow practice always pays.

Oops! Yes - I meant a tenth. I should have put RH mediant an octave higher - LH staying put - to make sense.

Six months ago all scales in 3rds were hard, major scales in 6ths difficult and minor scales in 6ths impossible. Arpeggios in root position could only be played slowly and had a lot of mistakes, and in any other position were even slower and were mostly mistakes. Diligent (almost) daily practice has improved the situation in terms of accuracy, speed and even experession. Now it's scales in 3rds with one hand at a time that are giving me problems. I anticipate that the same solution will be equally effective.

Scales in thirds with one hand - remember where the finger 5s go and you're there! Usually 2 different letters in each hand rather than just 1 (except C when 5 goes on G throughout - there might be other exceptions so I would have to check). Confusing these though as the AB manual shows a standard fingering and an alternative. I forget which one is which - but try the 5s - it should work.

P.S. My scale book is covered in pencil markings where I spent hours working them all out. I'll have another look next week. All good revision.

it is very hard for the scales in thirds with only one hand because it's legato. there will always be a moving line though so it makes it easier to use that as a pivot, if you know what i mean

I think the idea of playing the scales in dotted rhythm in both manners (i.e. start with the longer note first, then try again with the shorter note first) helps.

As for the thirds in one hand, similar advice, except you accent the first of every pair of thirds, and try to play the scale. And then you do the same again, but accent the second of every pair of thirds.

And there's always Hanon, which pretty much covers many of the different combinations...

~Wobby~

I love scales in thirds on every instrument I play!!

Me too! I love scales a 3rd apart, 6th apart and in double 3rds Much more satisfying than an octave apart

Yes, they do take a while to get into. You are not useless.
6ths are harder, I'd agree on that one.

Minors in 6ths are the worst - until you get used to them they just seem wrong!

A friend of mine pointed out that everything is either easy or impossible. The purpose of practice is to change one to the other!

I have found it useful to practise scales starting on the third an octave apart as well (i.e. C Maj starting on E, C min on Eflat etc) to help to fix the pattern and different attangements of tones and semitones, so they become (almost ) automatic, like scales starting from the tonic should be by this stage. I am so sad I also like to play them starting from every note in the scale as well, but each to their own!

You're not useless!

I did some scales in thirds, can't play grade 5 pieces but scales I am reasonably good at, so my teacher gave me some so I was at least progressing in *something!!*

One of the things that helped me, was to start the RH on the keynote, and only start playing with the LH when the right hand hit the 3rd, eg in C major, RH plays C, D, then LH joins in with C when RH hits E. Other way round for 6ths. It feels (or at least did for me!) much less unnatural in the RH then.

Also make sure you're 100% confident with the scales hands separately and one octave apart so you have as little as possible to think about beyond the 3rds bit of the equation.

Took me *ages* to suss them but it eventually clicked. You're light-years better than me on the piano, so I am confident you can do them!!

Just wanted to share something with you that has worked for me...

When you are practising for example C Major (in 3rds) play the first 2 notes with your right hand as if you were going to play the whole scale with your right hand only. When the 3rd finger of the right hand hits the 3rd note (e) start playing the scale of C Major for the left hand at the same time. I found this worked very well indeed for me. I'll be doing Group 1 in my Grade 7 in November. All I have to remember to do it NOT to play the first 2 notes with my right hand in the exam. At the end of the day scales are not difficult but they do require a great deal of practise. I find it difficult sometimes to play scales slowly as they lack momentum - particularly when playing 3rds.

Good luck!

I love scales in thirds but was very surprised when this appeared for Grade 3 Trinity Guitar...Oh, well anyway.