Hi, I just looked at one of the Paesold violins in a music shop. It's less than £400. I want to use this violin until I have passed my Grade 8 exam. Has anyone heard of Paesold violins? Are they good? When I tried that violin in the shop, although the higher positions and vibrato sounded very nice, but I found it difficult to do crescendos and diminuendos on that new violin. Anyway, the contrast on piano and forte wasn't clear enough in my opinion. Could it have anything to do with the fact that it was a different violin that I have never tried before? Or something to do with the bow? Or could it be because that was the violin's characteristic?
And also, do you think a violin less than £400 is enough to get me through Grade 8 or is it JUST sufficient? Is it expensive or cheap compared with other violins?
Thanx

By the way, it is a Paesold PA 400.

I'm pretty new to strings but i'd assume so as i bought a violin for £100 (i was desperate for a violin and only had £100.) and in its description it's for the 'higher grades'. Obviously not a good one but if it'll get through the higher grades, i'm sure a £400 one could.

Sorry I can't reply as to the 'violin characteristics' as I am new to the violin.
But there has been a few threads talking about how much one should spend on a violin to get to grade 8 and many do agree that it is the 'player' that counts much more than the violin and that a violin like you describe can be sufficient, although I do doubt that the lowest ranked on the market would be ok.
Take my son's violin for example, it is one of those 'coloured' ones (a blue one), I am only in between grade 1 and 2 with my playin but I can tell the difference between his violin and mine (mine is a Otto Jos Klier 72 which costed me £700 including case and bow), and I would say his violin would NOT be enough to get to grade 8.
Everybody seem to agree that if you can you should try a few violins before you buy.

thanx people. I was thinking to get a £250 Gliga Gems 2 from Liz, since she said on her website that it is good enough to go through grade 8. Also, my teacher had told me that it doesn't matter what violin you use. however, someone else said that a £400 violin is JUST sufficient for Grade 8. £400 is already exceeding my budget, since I originally planned to spend only 200-300 pounds. However, my parent doesn't seem to be bothered to order online and deal with the post and all, so in the end I may have no choice but buy from a local music shop.
What do you think about the brand? Is Paesold good? PA 400. Regarding to what I described at the beginning of the post, do you think i was dreaming about the crescendos or these things do happen?

I have heard a lot of good things about the Gligas and the Gems 2, I believe you can also buy this on 'approval' (speak to the person selling it)

Does anyone else prefer to play the violin without shoulder rests? I somehow feel uncomfortable having the shoulder rest while playing the violin. What is the purpose of it?

Lots of people play without shoulder rests - it depends very much on your own physical shape. If you are comfortable without one and can shift position easily then you don't need one.

Some people claim that a shoulder rest lifts the back clear of your shoulder and allows the violin to resonate more freely, but I don't believe that it makes any difference in practice. Other people claim that it is better to play without any rest or cushion as they get a more direct feedback from the violin. Take your choice.

Have a look through some old Strad magazines and you will see lots of photos from no rest, to small pad, to high rest with 'feet'.

I use a shoulder rest because I have a longish neck and hollow chest, and without a rest to fill in the gap the violin would land on the floor every time I changed from 3rd to 1st position!

Paesold is a difficult one as recently the company changed hands and violins labelled paesold now are not necessarily directly comparable to ones that were labelled paesold a year or two ago. With that proviso though, we had a Paesold 802 a couple of years ago, which is presumably a higher model than the 400 (it certainly should be judging by the price). I rated it about on a par with a Gliga Gems, but then I confess freely to being biased!

Price depends on a lot of things including particularly the country of origin and the method of import. You should not assume that £400 always buys the same quality, it doesn't. I passed grade 8 on an improved Poller - present RRP £250 or so for the outfit, though the improvements would perhaps knock the price up to about £300 for the violin only. I know someone else who did it on a zeller which was even cheaper. Remember it is the player being examined not the instrument.

I don't see why the characteristics you mentioned should have much to do with the bow or with the fact that the violin was new to you. If you didn't like it, my recommendation would be to look elsewhere.

Liz

Before you do anything else, email Liz at Elida Trading and ask to have a Gliga on appro. Tell your parent that not being "bothered to order online and deal with the post and all" is not a sufficient reason to buy the wrong instrument. Who's going to play it - you or your parent?

It sounds to me like you need to go and try as many different violins in your budget as possible. You will know when you play an instrument if it is for you or not and I'm quite sure for £400 you will find a very good violin.

I ask one thing of you and that is to try a Gliga. Don't discard the instrument because of postage and ordering online, it couldn't be any easier plus you get to try the instrument out properly at home. I bought the Gliga Gama violin which is the model up from the Gems and I knew immediately it was the instrument for me and I can honestly say I don't think i'll ever buy another violin. Everytime I pick it up it sounds nicer and it just makes me want to practice! I have no doubt the Gems will be a fantastic violin for the money and for £400 I believe you can also get the Gama if you are able to make do with the bow you have until upgrading when you can afford to.

Don't just buy a violin because it is the only one that is maybe suitable in the one shop. Try as many as possible and you will find the instrument that you are 100% happy with for any budget.

Fight for the right to try a Gliga - they are amazingly good value for money. I took my Gliga Gama 15 inch viola to a friend who's also my luthier, with no improvements since it came from Liz, and he was really surprised at the quality, I think even a little "how on earth do they manage to do this for that kind of money??!" - he was impressed with it and said the purfling was the best he had seen... I will take it to him to have it set up really well at some point which will make it even better, but the total cost will still be a fraction of a similar viola from him. He could make me a nicer viola, of course.... for a couple of grand... Definitely worth a look. If your parents are unwilling to save money on potentially a better instrument, then kick up a fuss, cos that's crrrrrrrazy.

They (or you) could always ring Liz - they might be happier if they have spoken to someone, "online" gives alarm bells for many people.

Has anyone ever owned a Paesold PA400? Is it good? And also, are there any differences between a German and an Italian violin?

You mean apart from several thousand pounds?

I've got an adult student who is currently hiring a Paesold violin, although I don't know if it's a 400. I'll admit that it is a very nice violin, certainly not the horrid cheap scrapey that some shops hire out. It's strung with Dominant strings too, which no doubt add to the rather decent sound it produces.

However, I'd still recommend a Gliga Gems.

Differences betwen German and Italian violins? Well, apart from the price, it has to be said that there are almost as many mass-produced Italian violins being made these days as there were German violins in the 19th and 20th centuries. The fact is, unless you have a couple of hundred thousand pounds to spend, or are lucky to find a newer (early 20th century) Italian instrument at perhaps £15,000, then an Italian violin is not worth spending your money on.

Italian violins are simply fashionable, like the latest mobile phone, 4x4 or whatever. Here's just one example: A well-known female soloist played for years on what she thought was a Gagliano violin. It had a beautiful tone that filled a concert hall. However, when the time came for it to be given a bit of a service, she was in for a shock. When the belly of the violin was removed there was a John Lott signature inside. The violin was late 18th century English, not Italian at all. She subsequently snubbed the instrument and refused to play it ever again. Oh how shallow some players are!!

Many modern Italian makers have jumped on the band-wagon of the word 'Italian', with the premise that many amateurs out there will happily pay £8000+, just to own an Italian violin - regardless of its tonal qualities. New Italian instruments are usually nice to look at, but to be honest, the tonal properties are often left wanting.

If you are going to buy new, then there are lots of good modern English makers who produce good sounding instruments, with good quality workmanship, and for around half the price of an Italian equivalent. Be guided by your ears, not a name tag!

Thanx for the long answer, Amandal. Do you think that the Paesold 400 is enough to help me throught Grade 8?

Hi Sakurawings, it seems to me that you have already decided that you want this particular violin - if that's the case, then get it.

I would just strengthen the recommendation to at least try out a gliga, for your budget I think you will be very pleasantly surprised at the quality and a gems, with a good set up, will more than comfortably see you to grade 8 and will cost you less than the paesold.

However, if you are set on the Paesold, then buy it!

Whatever you do, enjoy playing your new fiddle.

Thanx, everyone.
What strings are you using/did you use for your Grade 8 violin exam? Which brands are good? Should i consider gut string?
Thanx in advance

I used Pirastro Eudoxa - but that is going back a bit. These days there are synthetic strings that should do the job perfectly well. Different strings suit different violins, and experimenting with strings is an expensive hobby, that's the trouble.

As for the Paesold, I agree with rosfrog, if you like it then get it. It's just that from the first post it didn't sound as if you liked it very much, which is why people have been recommending others.

Liz

I think you have just read my mind. I do like the Paesold and want to buy it, because it sounded sweet (even in 3rd, 4th positions) it looked nice as well. A few of my relatives have the stereotype that German violins are the 1st choice when an Italian one isn't affordable. However, the only thing that's making me hesitate about the purchase is that somehow it was a LITTLE brash. I am in no way a violin expert and maybe I was just making things up in my mind.

That is a rather old stereotype, to be honest. In my experience you can get far better value from China or Eastern Europe - wages there are far lower and therefore so is the cost of production.

Anyway, whatever had been troubling the Paesold site has now been resolved and you can now see what they say about the PA400. It IS German, but it's the bottom of their range.

paesold pa400

The one we had was an 802.

There are other German violins if you're set on a German one - you might consider Klier, for example. But it is beginning to sound as if you've fallen in love with the Paesold, and at the end of the day, you're the player

Liz

Thanx Liz.
I still have to go to several other violin shops before making my FINAL FINAL decision.

Please, please, PLEASE try a Gliga before you purchase. Surely the amount of people here recommending them shows how good an instrument they are. You clearly have doubts about the Paesold and if you think the sound is a 'LITTLE brash' then you will never be entirely happy with this instrument. There are many other makes out there as well so just keep looking until you find an instrument you are entirely happy with. There is one for everyone. Just because it's not Italian or German don't discard it and give as many as you can a fair trial.

You might pick up a nice Italian fiddle on ebay. I bought a lovely Selva Giuseppe for £296. It's modern (1955), light and easy to play. Sadly it has to go to help pay for a nearly-new Zhu.

are you sure it's Italian?? If so it sure sounds as if you got a bargain!

Liz

No, I can't be sure about this yet. I sent some photos of it to a dealer who thought it looked German. Apparently it has Amati-style f-holes, very unusual for the period he thought. Giuseppe has a very brief mention in Henley, and the signed label looks genuine enough. If it's a fake, I just wonder why anyone would want to pass it off as the work of an almost unknown maker. Unless the idea was simply to pass it off as Italian? I actually bought it to replace a German fiddle, and the two instruments are distinctly different.

There's quite a trade on ebay in fake labels, I can tell you that - or at least, there was the last time I looked in on maestronet which, to be fair, was months ago!

Liz

Hmmmm. Thanks Liz. I've got that sinking feeling...