I'm really interested in trying to learn percussion and am considering using it for the Grade 1 Challenge.
I have no idea where to find a teacher or how to get access to the bigger instruments.

I know you can do grades 1 and 2 on glockenspiel and snare drum, but I'm more interesed in timpani and I'd need access to a bigger tuned percussion instrument for grade 3+.
How feasible is it to try to learn percussion when you won't have the instruments at home to practice with?

How long does it take to get to grade 1 from scratch? How much of it can be self-taught?
How fast is it possible to progress from there onwards?

I already have grade 5 theory and play other instruments, including a bit of piano (so I know my way around the layout of a keyboard).

Any advice/info would be much appreciated.
T.

Whereabouts are you?


If you go to www.mikedolbear.com there's a register of drum teachers across the UK - might be helpful?

I'm in the South East.

I really like marimba and timpani. But I have a sneaking suspicion that if I tried grade 1 I'd have to do it with glockenspiel and snare drum. :-(

I've played a little bit of drumkit, but it's orchestral percussion that intrigues me.

T.

As long as you have easy access to the percussion instruments, it doesn't matter that much about not having them at home. I was pretty much self-taught up to about grade 6, so you should be able to do some stuff on your own, but I'd definitely say you need some professional input! Having experience on other instruments should be a great help to you. Overall, I would say that it is probably feasible for you to take up percussion, and it is a VERY good idea! (I love it!)

It's the "easy access to the percussion instruments" bit that's a problem. I don't have access at all and I don't know how to go about arranging it.
Any suggestions?

How long did it take you to get to g6 and did you already play other instruments when you started?

T.

If I could possibly just make one suggestion? Is it really wise to be wanting to start learning various percussion instruments, given that you want to take high grades on a few others in preparation for uni? I'd say leave it and focus on your stuff this year, you may well find it easier to learn at uni when you have friends there to teach you, and can see if you can use instruments there.

Which is rich, coming from someone who took up a new instrument in upper 6th and got grade 8 in less than a year! *grin*

I do get the point, but I'm not planning on taking percussion terribly seriously (I just want to play it for fun) and it'll probably take me most of the year to even find out how to get access to any. So, I figure it couldn't hurt to start looking into it now.

I'm not going to apply to universities that are so far away that I couldn't live at home, so if I do manage to arrange anything I'd be able to keep going with it even if I get into uni next year (and it's not at all certain that I'll actually get a uni place - obviously if I do get into uni, that should give me easier access to stuff.)

T.

where abouts are you in the South East?

i have also been wanting to learn percussion for a while now but never got round to it. is it hard to start? its the drum kit i like

There is a shortage of percussionists in our Arts Centre Ensembles. Concert Band and Youth Orchestra have a couple of percussionists. I don't think there's enough people to round for the junior groups. Maybe you could ask your Music Service and see if they need anyone for their ensembles. If you're really lucky you might even get some support/tuition.




you can play some old pans to start with if you want to learn drums lol.

Wouldn't ensembles require some previous experience? I thought they did normally... Without access to instruments, I'm not really sure how you'd learn! You could buy a drum pad, which you could practise snare drum on but, as for the other instruments, I don't know what you could do!

As for drum kit, once you have the basic rhythm, you can improvise around it. So it's not TOO difficult to start, as long as you have good coordination!

They tend to have a member of staff working with them so it's a bit like on the job training. They also offer tuition in Percussion to under 16's free.

True, however, if I am correct, you play - clarinet, flute, organ, piano, recorder, and you study theory. Am I allowed to point out that that is considerably more than I played during my 6th form years? I'd stopped having clarinet lessons, piano I went back to and then there was sax, so there was much 'less' to concentrate on than you. Whilst you did mean that in a light hearted way, there were reasons why I did that, and that is now my main instrument and what I studied at uni. I very much doubt you are going to pick up percussion and suddenly become a first study percussionist (if you do please get back to me). The reason I was able to do what I did was because I focused on 2 instruments only, not however many you are .

Depends what you mean by "play"...
If you mean "currently have lessons on" then it's just organ, flute and piano - and piano will probably go away after I take grade 5.
If you mean, can play to a reasonable standard (for some value of 'reasonable' - let's say "good enough to play in a church music group") then axe piano and add clarinet, sax, recorders and guitar.
I don't actually practice sax or guitar at all though and recorder practice is about 5-10 mins a day.

Didn't you take exams in flute and clarinet as well as sax in upper 6th?

Realistically, I don't think I'm going to get anywhere near percussion unless/until I make it to Uni. But if I can get a chance to learn the basics before that, I think it'd increase my chances of getting to do some there. I don't play orchestral strings (well, not to a standard where I can do anything useful with them) - competition for woodwind places in orchestra is insane and I prefer organ to woodwind anyway and would like to make that my first study (first study woodwind players get preferential selection for orchestra). If they need an extra percussionist, I'd like to be in a position where I look like a sensible choice. A keyboard background/first study gives you a slight headstart with tuned percussion, but having some actual percussion experience would look better. Plus it's just plain interesting and I'd love to play it. Other instruments I'd love to learn include 'cello and French horn, but I don't have a headstart on those and would never get them to a standard where I could get into orchestra or anything like that. But percussion - if they're doing something that needs 3 or 4 percussionists and they've got one first study and one second study one available... ;-)

Sure, my main focus is on organ and woodwind. But if I get a chance to spend a little bit of time doing percussion sometime in the next year, I'm not going to turn it down.

T.

I took grade 1 flute yes. I'd rather this not be taken the wrong way but it was easy, I don't recall playing the pieces through very many times at all. Given that I was grade 6+ on most other instruments I play, grade 1 was not exactly taxing.

Clarinet I took grade 6, but the same again to be honest, I was probably slightly higher than grade 6 at the time, I found pieces easy and so I didn't put in loads of work on it.

So, whilst, yes I took 'other' exams they didn't detract at all from what my actual goal was and didn't require me to learn anything majorly new. Plus, ok, they are not all exactly the same but flute, clarinet, and sax are all related in some shape of form, and more related than percussion is to flute, for example.

In your thread a while back about getting through the grades you mentioned all sorts, which led me to believe that you were trying to do exams on quite a few, and all within the next year. I base my replies in this thread on that, I must have missed it somewhere if you have now decided to do a gap year.

I don't know how good you actually are and whether you are perfectly capable of doing it without a gap year. If you are some sort of genius then I take everything back. Go ahead and learn percussion. I just feel that if you are not taking a gap year, (and even if you are), starting a new instrument that is totally different is just absurd. The reason I said that what you wanted to do was feasible, was because at first I thought it was, and you seem a reasonably good musician, but add another instrument into the equation and my opinion may differ slightly.

Despite me not finding all the exams I took in upper 6th hard, I still would not have got through them had I suddenly started wanting to learn cello and trombone for example. I did it because I stuck to what I was capable of doing, what I was good at and didn't let my focus slip onto other things.

You need to sort your priorities out. If this is all just about possibly playing in an orchestra at uni then I'd have to say that's a bit silly. You never know what standard of woodwind players there are and if you get to grade 8 on clarinet and flute, you are still in with a chance. I didn't audition for the University Symphony Orchestra in my first year, I "only" had grade 6 and thought I had no chance. The second year comes around, I'm not really any better, still haven't done grade 8, and had no plans of auditioning. A friend filled out the form for me and sorted it all out, so I then had to go and audition as the conductor wanted me to - I then got in. Just because you are not at the right standard now does not mean you have no chance, and jeopardising your A-levels and other instruments you are good at just for that doesn't seem right.

I'll stop now and apologies if I have completely got the wrong idea about all of this, but I am just trying to help.

I'm grade 5+ on several things, so I figure grade 1 percussion (not necessarily even taking the exam, but at least covering the ground) would be fairly easy.
I never did g1 flute, but I found grade 2 flute easy - for much the same reason as you did - had done higher grades in other things before and already played clarinet and recorder.



I'd think percussion was related to piano, which I can already play a bit.

Piano doesn't really detract from my goals as it's related to organ. And, as you say, the woodwind stuff all relates to each other.
So I'm really only doing 2 things at the moment - keyboards and woodwind.



Well, I do have all sorts of options to pick from. I'm not actually going to do them all though. I just want grade 7 or 8 /something/ plus the highest grade I can manage on organ.
Grade 5 piano and 7 or 8 theory are just hoops to jump through and will get dropped once the exams are done. (I'm sight-reading some of the grade 5 stuff and have already covered a lot of the g6+ theory stuff, so they're not particularly time-consuming anyway.)

The decision about which year to apply for isn't made yet. It depends, in part, on what I have to do to be allowed organ as my first study and how long it's going to take me to do it. (Or whether I decide to settle for having it as second study.)

As for how good (or bad!) I actually am? I don't know. I'm not tone-deaf and I'm not a musical genius. I'd guess I'm somewhere around average.
Grades I've got so far are 6m, 5m, 5, 5, 4, 3d - nothing spectacular. The most recent instrumental exams have been in flute and organ. Flute marks have been 143, 126, 139, 126 (first was g2 after 6 lessons); organ 135 (g3 after 8 lessons, 2 of which were on exam stuff). That's all low grade stuff, but it does suggest that, at least in the early stages, I pick stuff up fairly quickly and get reasonable marks in exams.
For higher grades, I have no idea cos I'm only just starting to get there. Maybe I'll hit a brick wall at g6 and get completely stuck. I won't know until I try.

I guess I see percussion as something separate from my other music studies. If I do find a way to do a bit, it would be as a hobby (like boardgaming, sports, geo-caching, etc) so the time for it would come out of "free time" rather than out of "music time", if that makes any sense.



I guess I just see percussion as a different sort of thing. I'm avoiding getting sidetracked by things like 'cello, cool though they are, cos I know they'd have a bad impact on my practice time on other instruments. But I'd have very limited access to percussion, so it wouldn't be able to take over like that.
I've done some drum kit and small percussion before and I know my way around a keyboard, so I figure that should all map across quite well to percussion.



*nods* If I can only do percussion in a way that would impact on my other music, I'll have to pass on it.
If I can do just a bit as a hobby, I'll do it (and drop another non-music activity if necessary).
It's not just about orchestra - I really would like to be able to play percussion. But being able to use it for orchestra/ensembles is an extra point in its favour (compared to something like 'cello).

A-levels aren't an issue cos I'm not doing them. I wanted to do A-level music, but it wasn't available, so I'm doing a different music course and some other stuff - it's a lighter workload than A-levels but is accepted by universities. (This is why I need g7/8 theory though.)
This does give me more practice time than I'd have if I was doing A-levels, and without having to give up my other hobbies to make time for it.



I do appreciate the input. :-)
I'm just struggling to understand why spending a couple of hours a week doing percussion in place of boardgaming (or whatever) would mess up my music studies. If anything I think it'd /help/ as it would probably improve my rhythmic reading and give me more breadth of music experience.

I could be missing something though. Maybe percussion is something that you /can't/ just do for an hour or two a week.

T.

I was under the impression you were doing A-levels which would take up time if you were putting lots of work into those. It may not mess up your music studies, but I would think that given you want organ as your first study plus some other exams it would be far more beneficial using those 'however many hours' on practising for those and really getting as good as you can. I know when I was in upper 6th I wasn't about to take up a totally different instrument and detract from practising what I actually need to. I must admit to being quite confused as to what goals you want. I'm getting different impressions from different posts and you talk about doing so many varying exams I'm just a bit . Yes, you may categorise them into 'woodwind' and 'keyboards' like I did, but I wasn't attempting to get grade 8s on more than one instrument, which is what I thought you were attempting to do. Theory and piano may be dropped as soon as the exams are done but you're still going to have to do the work to pass the exams in the first place.

If you really want to learn percussion that badly, then go for it. I'm in no place to stop you, I am just giving you an opinion, but I do have more experience at 'attempting' this sort of thing than others. I do wonder though why you are attempting all these exams? You don't need every single instrument at grade 8. If I was you I'd pick ONE woodwind instrument and work as hard as possible on that to get to grade 8 with good technique, and then drop piano and theory, and use the time to work really hard on organ. There is a difference between passing a grade 8 exam and being grade 8 standard. I may have been better than I gave myself credit for but I did feel totally inadequate when I got to uni, knowing I wasn't as good as the others, knowing I'd not been playing as long and not really worked on technique. I don't regret what I did though and you don't need 10 gazillon instruments. If you have hours to spare every week to go board gaming then I personally would be jumping at the chance to use those hours to spend on my musical activities and working on say flute and organ to not only get grade 8, but to really be grade 8 standard.



Perhaps I should also mention I'd played flute for probably just over a year on and off when I took grade 1 as a joke

Ah. Nope - not doing A-levels. I'm on a "alternative" route. *grin*
I'd rather have done A-level music, but it wasn't on offer, so.... *shrug*



To get into uni I need g7, preferably g8, on "an instrument" and, because I'm not doing music A-level, I also need g7, preferably 8, theory. G5 piano is something they'd "like" me to have.

I don't care what I get that g8 in - flute or clarinet - as long as it gets me into uni.

Flute, I want to get to at least g8 /standard/ eventually, just cos I like it. Actually doing the exam isn't important, unless it looks like I can manage it for uni entrance. Which looks unlikely. So I may have to get the grade with clarinet or possibly recorder for uni purposes, possibly without being quite at g8 standard. In general I'm not a fan of taking exams beyond one's actual standard, but I'll make an exception for getting the bits of paper I need to get into uni. Music isn't about getting pieces of paper, but uni admissions is.



Which is /exactly/ the plan. :-)
Only thing is I havn't worked out which one to go for 8 with yet. *indecisive*
I prefer flute, but clarinet is probably more achieveable.

Guitar, I've never done exams on and probably never will. Ditto sax.
Recorder I've done no exams so far but might do at some point - there's no rush.
Kantele you can't even do exams in!
Singing exams aren't an option until my voice settles.
So, it's not about trying to do exams in everything I play, just trying to work out what I can use to get the g8 I need for uni.




I'm spending anything up to 6 hours a day doing music practice. There comes a point where the concentration just isn't there anymore (or the embouchure is gone and the wrist hurts terribly and doing more is just going to be counterproductive as bad habits creep in to compensate).
Yes, people at music college practice that much or more. But I'm not at music college and taking a few hours a week to play games, do sports, hang out with my mates, etc. isn't unreasonable. Or are you really telling me that other people who want to do music at uni have /no/ non-musical hobbies and never watch TV or read a (non-school) book?

I'm fascinated by the sounds that different instruments make and the way they produce those sounds. I have the attention span of a goldfish. I /do/ need a gazillion instruments! *grin* But I don't need to do exams in most of them or play them particularly well. I just need to be able to pick them up and goof around with them from time to time.

The range of different sounds available is a major part of the attraction of percussion. Sure, I love the sound of marimba and timps, but there's also all the other things with their different sounds.
'Cello is /one/ instrument (a wonderful one, but just one). Percussion is /oodles/!
Plus, you get to run around and hit stuff - what's not to like? ;-)




I've played non-orchestral percussion for several years on and off.
I don't want to do orchestral percussion as a joke, but I do want to do it just for fun. Not for exams (except maybe the g1 challenge, but only if I'd got my other exams all finished by then).

I'll admit I've toyed with the thought of doing g5 recorder (more or less as a joke) and your advice did put me off that idea. (See! I /do/ listen to you!!)

If I was thinking of trying to start percussion from scratch, spend a couple of hours a day on it, and try to get g5 in 6 months or something like that then, yeah, I agree it would be daft. (Not in itself, but in terms of the distraction from flute/organ.)


So, assuming a max of 2 hours a week and no practice instrument(s) at home - is it possible to do enough with orchestral percussion to get a handle on the basics?

If the answer to that is 'no', then it wouldn't be sensible to pursue it further at this point.
But if it's 'yes', I think it would be a lot of fun, would enhance my overall musicality and would hopefully open a few doors if/when I get to uni.

T.

Fair enough, that, I imagine is why I was confused.



That depends on which universities you apply to. Theory, yes because you haven't done the A-level. Being the required standard and being able to demonstrate that is more important to some universities than a piece of paper. I think that saying you don't care which instrument you get the grade 8 in is where the problem lies. You need to make a decision sooner rather than later, because you suddenly will care if you prolong the decision, resulting in no grade 8s.



Arrgh, now you are saying possibly grade 8 recorder?! *bangs head on table* Perhaps it would be clearer to say which universities you are looking at, because I disagree that you need a piece of paper to get in. Whilst I probably ended up going to a 'lesser' named uni, I still had offers from universities with bigger general reputations for Music, with only a grade 5. I'd said I was going to do grade 8, but it was not part of the conditional offer.



Ok, you are indecisive, but if you only take one piece of advice from all my waffle today, please let it be this - make a decision soon! You have much more of a chance in passing a grade 8 exam and actually being grade 8 standard if you decide asap.



Good for you. I did nothing like that and I agree it's good to have a break, but surely with something completely different and not learning an extra instrument?



People at music college are supposed to practice lots . Other people who want to do music at uni have plenty of other non-musical hobbies, I am sure of it, but that isn't my point. If you are insisting that after your usual normal practice that you lack concentration etc then surely non-musical hobbies are the way forward, not another instrument. I know you have goals to aim for and achieve, but don't burn yourself out with music before you even get to uni. I speak from experience here as well, I have done so so much music, that it took over my life and I now really don't like it and have no enthusiasm for it whatsoever! It's not a nice feeling I can tell you that!





That, as I am sure you know, I cannot answer, so hopefully once I've stopped hijacking the thread you'll get a decent answer to that.

Listen, it's obvious you're really enthusiastic and love music, and I see so much of myself a few years ago in how you come across, but please don't make the mistake I did and do too much. It can ruin so much. I am one of the few who would argue that what you are trying to do is possible, because I have done it myself but you need to be clear with what you are aiming for in which instruments and not overload. I would personally advise that in your spare non practice time, you do something completely different, not learn percussion. You have plenty of time to look at other instruments, opportunities may be less evident throughout certain periods of your life, but there will always be a chance to do it somewhere if you try hard enough.

I also appreciate your 'stubborn-ness', I imagine I was the same when I was 'attempting' this. I argued I could do it and I wasn't ruining everything and everyone else disagreed . As it happened perhaps, those few years of my life were the stepping stone for the burnout I am going through now. Who knows.

Good luck with whatever you decide, if you ever decide...

Do I sense the old 'jack of all trades master of none' creeping in here.

I can't add much to what Scaramouche has said. Only you can decide what instrument to take grade 8 on. What could you face practising several hours a day for the next 3 or 4 years? What realistically could you take to a higher level, and I mean well beyond grade 8. Which suits your own style and tastes, and maybe ensemble opportunities? Take too much on at once and you will lose focus entirely. Trust me on this.

It's your decision. Hope you make the right one.

I asked a bunch of questions of the admissions folk. G7 practical is a requirement if you want to take performance modules and they like g7/8 anyway (especially with no A-level). They /may/ consider allowing organ as first study (with a lower grade), as long as I have g8 in something else to show, er, I can't remember the exact wording, but the gist of it was to show that I'm capable of 'doing music' at that level. (i.e. they may bend the rules on required bits of paper for organ, if I jump through other hoops instead and can show I'm reasonably musical).

For getting that g8, my first choice would be flute, but I don't know if I'm capable of it. Clarinet I already have 6 merit. If I can't manage the breathing for either of those, recorder would be my last ditch option.




Indecisive may not be quite the right word. If I was sure i could manage it, I'd choose flute, no question. But I've got respiratory issues which make me very unsure of how far I can actually get with flute.
Clarinet seems less chancy in that department, but I'm fairly rusty.

So, at the moment I'm working on g6 and 7 pieces and 8 scales for flute, and trying to play clarinet a little bit every day to get my embouchure and stamina back, so I have it as an option if the flute stuff starts to unravel.



What I meant was that I couldn't fill every waking moment with practice on my exam instruments. The idea that if I have spare time available for boardgaming and stuff, it would be better spent practising my main instruments is what I was arguing against.
I did over 3 hours organ practice this afternoon (in a solid block, with one very very short break to scarf down a mini mars bar) and it was cold in church (aside - what happenned to summer??). Much more and I'd have been getting to the 'tired, cold, hungry and generally had enough for now' stage, at which point doing more doesn't have any real pay-off. But home again (and warmer and fed), I could quite cheerfully noodle around with a guitar for half an hour, just to chill out.
I think playing around with some stuff "just for fun" - without having to work on scales, learn exam pieces or practice seriously even when I don't feel like it - is a key part of /not/ losing my enthusiasm. There are going to be days when organ/flute/etc. just feel like plain hard work. Doing other music stuff that's pure play is important too.

Percussion would, I think, be a really good outlet for that "I wanna do something just for fun!" urge.



Yeah, I do need to sort out the flute/clarinet question and I need to avoid taking on a "serious" new instrument. And I can see that you know the potenial for over-loading on music and you don't want me to get into the rut that you found yourself in.
You might well be right. But my situation is a bit different as I'm not trying to do it alongside A-levels. My college workload is a lot lower than it would be for A-levels and what pressure there is is more spread out. So I do have more time and energy available for music cos it's not all being sapped by school.

The percussion thing doesn't need a decision really. I know I want to do it. If it's possible to do it just as a hobby thing and I can find an opportunity to give it a try, I'll take it. If it would take too much time/energy or if I can't find anywhere to do it, then I won't.




Yup!
I've always loved being able to mess around with different instruments - scrounging a "go" on anything I could get my grubby little paws on. (So far it's included hammered dulcimer, tenor horn, trombone, French horn, viola, 'cello, 12-string guitar, mandolin - anything anyone will let me try - and I got a tune or a scale out of all of them.)
The "what I've dabbled with" list is out of control (goes way beyond the instruments I've done exams or had lessons on). I can play violin in 1st position and once played double bass in school orchestra (when we did something that was strings only). I've played cornet in church music group and have a pile of small stuff (ocarinas, tin whistles, tabor pipe, harmonicas, etc.).
About the only thing I'm completely disinterested in playing is double-reeds.



Organ.
I'm fascinated by the instrument, I dig the repertoire and my musical background is rooted in church/cathedral music.
The catch is that I'm too late starting it, so I'm never going to be able to go all the way with it. But eventually I'd like to get g8 and CertRCO, maybe even ARCO if I get good enough.
I don't know how far I'll actually be able to get, but I'm pretty sure that it's going to be lack of ability that determines it rather than lack of interest.

Flute for something more portable and with ensemble opportunities.



You're both right about needing to sort out which instruments to really work at and which to keep just as things to play for fun.
I don't think that adding percusison to the 'fun' stuff would be a problem though. It's the 'serious' side that I need to not overload.

T.

Interesting that admissions folk said that. I was never under that impression from any of my universities, and many audition before and when you get there anyway. So in that case the piece of paper would not be the be all and end all. You can prove yourself in an audition. But hey, maybe you are applying to different insitiutions and which have changed or require different requirements. Who knows.

Regarding the percussion thing, you were mentioning exams a few posts ago, which is why I was trying to urge you away from it. By all means do it as something relaxing, say like playing guitar, but you can't mention exams and then expect me to believe you just want it as something fun!

I've only talked to one place (I'm pretty sure which one I want to go to, but I'm not going to say which it is). I would guess that requirements vary from place to place. And they vary depending on whether you're doing A-level or an alternative. With no A-level, they'd /like/ to see g8 in both theory and practical, plus g5 piano. They'll probably settle for g7 in both.
If I was doing A-level, there'd be no theory requirement and g7 would be required only for performance options.



Well, if I do get a chance to do percussion, I might do the g1 challenge just for fun, but it would be like your taking g1 flute. Questions about how long whoever it was took to get to g6 were just cos I was interested in what they'd done, not cos I have any ideas about taking g6 myself!
G1 isn't exactly serious exam work for me - I havn't done a g1 since I was 7 (when I did g1 theory).
Flute I started at g2, organ and clarinet at g3, singing at g5. Theory I did g1, then nothing til g5. The only thing that I started at g1 and didn't skip grades in is piano. I tend to be aware of what standard I'm at on an instrument (piano being the exception, where I was surprised to find that I'm somewhere around g5, despite having no idea how I got there) but not take a lot of exams. This year is different cos of trying to get some grades done with a view to uni.
The g1 challenge would be a good excuse for doing percussion. ;-)
But the exam is optional - the main attraction is being able to make the sounds.

T.

I don't mean to be rude and having a multi instrumentalist daughter I can understand your position. I am just wondering why you are in a dither now about what instrument you should get Grade 8 on? You say yourself that you learn things quickly and that you've been learning since you were 7 so why didn't you plan before now how you were going to get to Uni?

My 12 year old daughter says she wants Music as a Career and that will mean going to Uni, she's only been playing 2.5 years or so and to a degree she's already working her way up to the position she needs to be in to fulfill that ambition. If she changes her mind then that's fine but it's really important that she's progressing towards her goal.

On the point of Percussion, both my girls play as they were given the opportunity of free lessons a couple of years ago, the eldest plays in Orchestra. They enjoy it and don't do exams, they both seem to cope with it well, but the eldest has more experience especially as she's had kit lessons for a few years.

I'm in no position to advise you but in your own best interests it might be better to secure your future by getting the qualifications you need to gain entry to Uni. If you want Organ as your first study and need a grade 8 in a wind instrument then get that before making any decision about another or change of hobby. At the end of the day if you want to do Percussion in the Orchestra at Uni only then you have probably got a reasonable chance with the experience you already have.

It might be best to get some advice from someone who can hear your playing about which instrument is your best option. You might have to consider that Recorder is not the easiest option at least not from our experience, especially with out proper guidance from a specialist teacher.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Actually I started piano when I was 5. But at that point I wanted to be an astronomer when I grew up.
Started clarinet at 10, by which point I wanted to be an archaeologist. When I chose my GCSE options, history was cross-timetabled against music, and I knew I needed history GCSE as I'd need to do it for A-level in order to read ancient & medieval history and archaeology. Music was just something I did - it wasn't what I was planning to study. I wasn't trying to get any particular grades on any particular instruments - I was just having fun playing different things, making different sounds, being in different ensembles, etc.

Kids can change their minds about what they want to do - especially kids who have a wide range of interests and hobbies.

I think it's easier for kids who are exceptionally good in one area - gives them a fairly clear route. For kids like me who are OK at almost everything but not brilliant at anything, it's harder. I know I could study almost anything and muddle through it somehow. But there's nothing that I excel at.
I'm the archetypal bad all-rounder. *wry grin*
I'm OK at science and maths, alright at humanities, reasonable at languages - choices for GCSE, 6th form and Uni are determined simply by what I happen to be most interested in at the time. I'm not better at music than I am at other things, it's just what I'm most into at the moment. It's also the one thing that I've /always/ done, alongside whatever else I was into. Music's always been part of my life and, I think partly because of that, it's been sort of invisible. It never occurred to me until a year or two ago that I might possibly be able to study it at Uni.
Even now, I could roll a die to decide between going for a BMus, a BA (in history or similar) or a BSc (in physics or astronomy) and, if I had the required A-levels and got a place, have no more chance of success or failure in any one of them than any other.



*nods* Maybe she'll stick with music. Maybe she'll end up doing something completely different. As long as she's enjoying what she's doing, it doesn't really matter. (Unless her GCSE option choices rule out something that she later decides she really wants to do, but even then there are ways around it.)
She still got several years to explore her options. If she ends up deciding that engineering (or economics or whatever) gives her a better chance of getting a job, she'll still be able to do music for fun.

I wish our education system made it easier to change direction later on. I was 13 when I chose my GCSEs. I know there are some kids who, at 13, are /really/ sure about what they want to do (and don't change their minds during the next 2-4 years), but a lot either don't know or they think they know, but then change their minds later. I'd changed my mind within a year of starting GCSEs, when I found I was enjoying maths and physics (and extra-curricular music) a bit more than history, Latin and classics. Also realised I had a better chance of getting a job eventually if I studied something like sound engineering than if I did ancient history. At 14/15 I wangled myself a place on a dig for a month with a university Field Archaeology Unit and decided that, while it was fun and interesting, it was something I could be happy with keeping just as an interest/hobby. I wouldn't have taken physics for GCSE if I'd been given a choice, but I had a different teacher for GCSE and within a few weeks it went from being my most hated subject (the material had always fascinated me, but I'd had a really horrible teacher) to being my favourite. I wanted to take maths, physics and music for A-level, but wasn't allowed. So I'm doing non-A-level music.



That's the sort of thing I'd like to do - just play it for fun and maybe get a chance to play in an ensemble of some sort eventually. I already play glockenspiel and bodhran and have done a bit of drumkit (a mate taught me the basics). But it's orchestral percussion that gets my attention. I love the sound of timpani and marimba in particular, but the sheer range of sounds at a percussionist's disposal interests me.



I have the same problem with instruments that I have with academic subjects - OK at lots, brilliant at none.
Recorder isn't my first (or second or third) choice - but it's at the back of my mind as a fallback option if I run up against a brick wall with the others.

I'm concentrating on organ and flute at the moment and trying to keep my clarinet playing going (so I have that as a backup if I can't get the breathing right for flute). If I get a chance to try percussion I'm going to take it, but not in a way that would interfere with the ones I need to do exams in.
Percussion interests me a lot, but I don't want to do it as an exam subject. I want to play it for fun.


Thinking about it, choice of instrument is a bit like choice of subject for kids. There are some kids who chose an instrument because they really love that particular instrument and are driven to play it. But a lot just start learning whatever is available or what their parents choose or what their mates play. They like music and enjoy making it, but they might not have discovered which instrument really fascinates them. Changing instrument later can be difficult, like changing academic track. Piano and clarinet had their advantages when I was younger, but I didn't dig either of them enough to want to make music my main thing. Taking up organ was, for me, a similar experience to taking physics for GCSE. I didn't know beforehand how it would 'click' for me, and when it did, well, it's hard to describe. But it's a really cool feeling.

I guess the danger of percussion is that if I start it just for fun, I may find that it clicks for me and I get a lot more 'into' it than I meant to. It's got the same 'lots of different sounds' thing going for it that organ has, plus a track record of being a good choice for slightly hyper kids with short attention spans. ;-)
But I love the organ so much, that it's difficult for me to envisage anything displacing it from my number one spot.

T.

I'm not going to quote all of the above.

I really understand your position, for my youngest music just clicked with her, she's never seriously wanted to do anything else. In the end she may change her mind, I'm not really hung up about her doing music, like you say it's always there as a hobby. I suppose as parents we've made the choice to support her as much as possible. It may not be a good thing and sometimes I really feel the decisions she makes and we make with her are open ended. similar to your choices in a way.

For her GCSE is a couple of years away and one of the things at the back of my mind is for her to get as far down the exam route as she can, leaving year 11 relatively free of practice. Like you she could suddenly find another instrument that interests her and want to explore that. Sometimes it's hard juggling all her instruments and ensembles during school time. If possible I'd like her to take GCSE Music outside of school, maybe in year 9, that would give her more chance to persue other things in school (Music doesn't always run as an option not enough uptake). It's something we are going to have to consider in the next year, there are very few instrumentalists in her year at the moment.

I'm sure you could get to play Percussion for fun, you need to look round for local wind or string groups, they might be glad to have you. Timpani is one of the things both girls enjoy, but I suspect the eldest just likes making a noise.

My eldest wants to be a VET (not sure that she's academically good enough), I'm proud that when her options were ready for choosing she thought about alternatives. She took Art and Graphics as it would offer her a different career path if her first option disapeared.

I really wish you the best of luck in sorting out where you want to go. I still think you might be better making a decision and sticking with it as to which instruments you're going to concentrate on to get into Uni. Hope everything works out for you. Life4's never easy even if we are certain where we want to be.

The thing is, if you keep having these fall-back options 'just incase' then you never will get really good at anything. You'll always be 'just ok'. To be really good at something, it requires patience, effort, hard work, and you need to continue to try even when things are hard. Having clarinet and recorder as back-ups and other options just seems to me like you're not serious enough with organ and flute. You may have mentioned somewhere about difficulties with breathing, and if that's the case I do apologise but what I think still stands. You're going to need to breathe for any woodwind instrument, that's the whole point.

I am positive that you are talented enough at music to get somewhere with it and that you are serious about playing, but to others it may not appear as such because you just have all these other options. Be brave, take a risk, really go all out on the 'chosen few' and work at it. Don't give up if things get a little difficult. There will become times when you just want to throw the flute on the floor (please don't), but stick at it. Very few people get very far without going through some ARGH moments, what sets them apart though is that they keep going.

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