moon
Jul 8 2007, 01:43 PM
I know this sounds a bit silly, but what shade of brown/orange/red is your violin? What colour do you like?
For the past year, on and off I've been looking for my perfect violin...now I've found it, but I don't like the colour! I like shades of brown, but this violin is a kinda like a light orangey/brown that is more of an orange kinda colour. I'm not sure about it. I'm upgrading from a cheap £150 student violin and my budget is a max of £1500. This violin would be life and I doubt I'll upgrade again. I must have tried about 20 plus violins, my teacher always found some minor faults with them e.g tone isn't clear enough, it's difficult to tune, it sounds too bright or too deep etc. He told me that I can't expect a really good violin for £1500, his one cost £10,000 and the "cheap" violin he uses for teaching is £1500!. But the latest violin I tried, he said it sounds really good but the only problem is that I don't like the colour! Everyone in my practice orchestra has a brown colour string instrument, and if you go to a show and watch an orchestra they tend to have brown colour instruments as well. To be honest, all the violins I tried sound similar to me I don't know what a good violin should sound like, so I have to trust my teacher, and if he said this one is good, it must be as he's a professional.
Unless I keep this violin, I've run out of music shops to try! Does anyone know any shops that sell second hand violins in London, Essex or Surrey area?
lottie
Jul 8 2007, 02:00 PM
My teacher has a violin that she had commissioned (made just for her). It's exactly what she wanted in terms of sound etc and it is lovely... but it's almost bright orange! It's just the varnish that the maker used.
My Gliga is quite dark brown with a dark reddish tinge. My Dad's violin is paler but what I like about his is that it varies more across the instrument where mine is a more 'solid block' of colour.
I personally think you should only buy an instrument if you are truly happy with everything about it. £1500 may not seem like a lot but you should still be able to find something you can fall in love with. Sorry I can't help with the shops - well, there's the Violin shop in Glasgow and Stringers in Edinburgh - they're my locals!
elidatrading
Jul 8 2007, 03:04 PM
QUOTE(lottie @ Jul 8 2007, 03:00 PM)

Sorry I can't help with the shops - well, there's the Violin shop in Glasgow and Stringers in Edinburgh - they're my locals!
... but a fair way from London Essex or Surrey!
I find myself in two minds - on the one hand, if your teacher is that fussy, you're probably going to go through another 20 violins before you find another one he likes. On the other hand, if you really don't like the colour then you're the one who has to live with the violin.
I will say two more things though:
1. If you are limiting yourself to used instruments only you haven't exhausted the range of violins that are available under £1500, there are many new ones you could look at in this price range (unless newness is part of what you don't like about the present one of course). You could always think internet, you can get violins sent on approval. Or take a drive out for the day and go further afield.
2. To reject a violin on the grounds that it is "difficult to tune" is very short-sighted, if it was one you otherwise liked. Tuning pegs can be replaced. Similarly, changing to a different brand of strings can make a huge difference to the tone - the "too bright" violin may be fine if you put pro-arte or Obligato strings on. The "too deep" violin (I assume this means "too dark") can be brightened by Helicores or Evah Pirazzi. Though admittedly experimenting with strings is far from a cheap hobby.
To be honest, having a teacher reject 20 violins would normally give me only one message and that would be that the teacher is determined to force you to buy something else, either something that is in a different price bracket or perhaps one he is trying to sell himself. However in this case if he has accepted the one you have now, and has no financial interest in you buying that one, then perhaps he's just excessively fussy.
There is another option for you and that is not to upgrade at all at this stage. You don't mention your playing standard but you do say that you can't tell the difference between the ones you have tried. That is suggesting to me that perhaps you aren't ready to move up yet. Did you tell a difference when your teacher played the instruments?
Liz
nova
Jul 8 2007, 03:17 PM
QUOTE(moon @ Jul 8 2007, 02:43 PM)

I know this sounds a bit silly, but what shade of brown/orange/red is your violin? What colour do you like?
For the past year, on and off I've been looking for my perfect violin...now I've found it, but I don't like the colour! I like shades of brown, but this violin is a kinda like a light orangey/brown that is more of an orange kinda colour. I'm not sure about it. I'm upgrading from a cheap £150 student violin and my budget is a max of £1500. This violin would be life and I doubt I'll upgrade again. I must have tried about 20 plus violins, my teacher always found some minor faults with them e.g tone isn't clear enough, it's difficult to tune, it sounds too bright or too deep etc. He told me that I can't expect a really good violin for £1500, his one cost £10,000 and the "cheap" violin he uses for teaching is £1500!. But the latest violin I tried, he said it sounds really good but the only problem is that I don't like the colour! Everyone in my practice orchestra has a brown colour string instrument, and if you go to a show and watch an orchestra they tend to have brown colour instruments as well. To be honest, all the violins I tried sound similar to me I don't know what a good violin should sound like, so I have to trust my teacher, and if he said this one is good, it must be as he's a professional.
Unless I keep this violin, I've run out of music shops to try! Does anyone know any shops that sell second hand violins in London, Essex or Surrey area?
How nice to be choosing a new violin! I don't know whether you have come across West Country Violins online; they seem to have a very good reputation and you can listen to sound clips of each instrument as well. I think they have a returns policy which would be good if you are spending that much.
I have been looking at their website every now and then as I will probably be looking for a new one sometime in the near future too; mine isn't really mine and although it is very pretty I'd probably sacrifice looks for sound in the end. Have you considered looking into the cost of having one made? Unless you definitely want an old one of course.
I have been told that a good violin should have richness of sound (where you can hear lots of the harmonic components of the notes), projection, and the flexibility to play well right up to the highest positions: personally I haven't tried any other violins so I don't have a benchmark. The bow and the individual set up of the violin obviously affects the sound quality and playability too, and things like tuning pegs can be fixed by a luthier (Mine were awful but are now ok since they were adjusted)
Have fun looking, I hope you find one you can enjoy.
N
Malone
Jul 8 2007, 03:56 PM
I have a freind how is a professional cellist, and a couple of years ago he bought himself a new cello, he was a bit the same to begin with - everything is perfect, but unfurtunately, it is shiny and orange, but he bought it and seems to like it.
I have three violins, two of which are really air looms - A very scottish thing I think to have fiddles knocking about. They are nothing special, made by local luthiers, 1 is dark brown and not shiny, one is very light honey colour and not shiny, and my main one has a dark pine colour to it, quite an abvious grain in it - very pretty!!
We may even have a cute 1/8 violin knocking about still. Its a skylark and very orange - putrid orange!!
matthew_o50
Jul 8 2007, 06:44 PM
I agree with Liz, it sounds that you would be better waiting until you really know the violin that is right for you yourself and not one that your teacher is picking for you. As you say it is probably the instrument you will have for years to come. Everyone plays differently and everyone likes different qualities in a violin as with every instrument.
It might be better at this stage to go for a violin that is a fraction of your budget which will be miles better than a student instrument and will do you for years until you are at the stage where you can make your own decision about an instrument.
It is a lot of fun looking for a new violin and is something which I did myself a few months ago. If you're not completely 100% happy with everything about the instrument then don't get it, even if it's the colour. I remember looking at different violins and the ones I didn't like the look of I never even picked up to play because I knew I would always regret getting that particular colour. I always wanted a dark coloured violin after owning several orangy coloured student ones and so that is what I got when I bought my Gliga and I love everything about it!
Clari Nicki1
Jul 8 2007, 08:17 PM
There's a violin shop in Merstham Surrey... they were there when I was a child and they are still there (got a bow from them when my daughter sat on other daughter's bow....pretty close to an exam... I just happened to be visiting my Dad!!!!!!!!) It's called Newton's....
I now live in Somerset.... and violin buying here seems to happen in Bristol.....
jojo
Jul 9 2007, 06:20 AM
QUOTE(moon @ Jul 8 2007, 02:43 PM)

I know this sounds a bit silly, but what shade of brown/orange/red is your violin? What colour do you like?
For the past year, on and off I've been looking for my perfect violin...now I've found it, but I don't like the colour! I like shades of brown, but this violin is a kinda like a light orangey/brown that is more of an orange kinda colour. I'm not sure about it. I'm upgrading from a cheap £150 student violin and my budget is a max of £1500. This violin would be life and I doubt I'll upgrade again. I must have tried about 20 plus violins, my teacher always found some minor faults with them e.g tone isn't clear enough, it's difficult to tune, it sounds too bright or too deep etc. He told me that I can't expect a really good violin for £1500, his one cost £10,000 and the "cheap" violin he uses for teaching is £1500!. But the latest violin I tried, he said it sounds really good but the only problem is that I don't like the colour! Everyone in my practice orchestra has a brown colour string instrument, and if you go to a show and watch an orchestra they tend to have brown colour instruments as well. To be honest, all the violins I tried sound similar to me I don't know what a good violin should sound like, so I have to trust my teacher, and if he said this one is good, it must be as he's a professional.
Unless I keep this violin, I've run out of music shops to try! Does anyone know any shops that sell second hand violins in London, Essex or Surrey area?
If it sounds good and you like the sound of it, ignore the colour, I am pretty sure you'll get used to it in time and its sound will far outweigh that little problem
Maizie
Jul 9 2007, 07:45 AM
Bit of a tangent...
I started playing the cello when I started secondary school. The school had two instruments, one was used by a person two years above me so I got the other one. The one she used was a really dull brown and just boring and bleurgh...whereas my one was BRIGHT ORANGE and I loved it being all bright and vivacious and so on.
One year later, the other girl stopped playing (when she started GCSEs, I think), so I got the choice. I ended up chosing the 'dull' one as by that time the gorgeous bright orange I found just too screamingly bright and the dull brown cello was now a sedate gentle colour.
I think the colour is important if you're going to be conscious of it - if it's got a beautiful sound and you work well with it as an instrument, that's no good if when you're playing you're thinking 'What do they think of this neon-orange monstrosity?'
If you're not too worried about the colour - if it's just one of those things - then you're bound to get used to it and may even end up loving it because if it's a fab instrument that works well with you then it's inherently beautiful!
Deborah
Jul 9 2007, 09:56 AM
QUOTE(Clari Nicki1 @ Jul 8 2007, 09:17 PM)

There's a violin shop in Merstham Surrey... they were there when I was a child and they are still there (got a bow from them when my daughter sat on other daughter's bow....pretty close to an exam... I just happened to be visiting my Dad!!!!!!!!) It's called Newton's...
Yes, they're still there (just off Junction 8 of the M25), and are the people behind Rainbow Violins - now, their instruments really ARE orange! They're only a couple of miles up the road from me (and next door to the local music shop - I have to do my music shopping either online or on a day when I know that Newtons is closed, otherwise I'll end up coming home with a purple cello). Anyone going there, PM me in advance and pop round for a cuppa afterwards.
Sorry,

As Liz said, have you thought about online shopping? Various forummers have recommended
these people for string instruments.
I'm not a string player, but I understand that there are hundreds of variables with any string instrument - the individual instrument, the strings you use, your bow, the pieces you're playing to name but four.
Happy hunting
sarah-flute
Jul 9 2007, 10:24 AM
QUOTE(Deborah @ Jul 9 2007, 10:56 AM)

I have to do my music shopping either online or on a day when I know that Newtons is closed, otherwise I'll end up coming home with a purple cello
moon
Jul 9 2007, 01:14 PM
Thanks for everyone's advice
I'm obsessed with violin colours! I've been watching videos on youtube and checking out the colour of people's violin, hardly anyone has a orange shade of violin. But then the more I play it, the more I like it. I got 5 more days to decide.
I was about grade 6 to 7 level before I gave up. But I haven't played the violin for so long, I'm rusty with all my positions and shifting, so I would say I'm that good anymore! I'm currently working on grade 5/6 pieces with my teacher. My cheap violin sounds terrible when I play in anything higher than the 3rd position.
That's a good idea, maybe I should wait till I get to grade 8 before I spend that much money and in the meantime get something for less than £300. I get attached to instruments very easily, even though my cheap violin isn't that good, I don't want to sell it, I don't want to end up with lots of violins! But wow, Malone, you have 3 violins! Now I don't feel so bad for ending up with 3 as well!
Thanks for the recommendations of shops, I'll check them out!
elidatrading
Jul 9 2007, 02:24 PM
QUOTE(moon @ Jul 9 2007, 02:14 PM)

I was about grade 6 to 7 level before I gave up. But I haven't played the violin for so long, I'm rusty with all my positions and shifting, so I would say I'm that good anymore! I'm currently working on grade 5/6 pieces with my teacher. My cheap violin sounds terrible when I play in anything higher than the 3rd position.
What's your present violin? - I don't mean the new one, I mean the student one.
Liz
Malone
Jul 9 2007, 02:49 PM
Maybe you could paint it!!
Zhuologist
Jul 9 2007, 03:44 PM
QUOTE(moon @ Jul 8 2007, 02:43 PM)

I know this sounds a bit silly, but what shade of brown/orange/red is your violin? What colour do you like?
For the past year, on and off I've been looking for my perfect violin...now I've found it, but I don't like the colour! I like shades of brown, but this violin is a kinda like a light orangey/brown that is more of an orange kinda colour. I'm not sure about it. I'm upgrading from a cheap £150 student violin and my budget is a max of £1500. This violin would be life and I doubt I'll upgrade again. I must have tried about 20 plus violins, my teacher always found some minor faults with them e.g tone isn't clear enough, it's difficult to tune, it sounds too bright or too deep etc. He told me that I can't expect a really good violin for £1500, his one cost £10,000 and the "cheap" violin he uses for teaching is £1500!. But the latest violin I tried, he said it sounds really good but the only problem is that I don't like the colour! Everyone in my practice orchestra has a brown colour string instrument, and if you go to a show and watch an orchestra they tend to have brown colour instruments as well. To be honest, all the violins I tried sound similar to me I don't know what a good violin should sound like, so I have to trust my teacher, and if he said this one is good, it must be as he's a professional.
Unless I keep this violin, I've run out of music shops to try! Does anyone know any shops that sell second hand violins in London, Essex or Surrey area?
lizbun
Jul 9 2007, 03:59 PM
My Current one is a Stentor model, which is a Orange and lookes and is very basic(up to about grade 5 at the most)
The one that I'm borrowing from my teacher is normal brown and is a lovely handmade

violin, unlike my other violins. (ony a bit of tone difference though...) It is worth about £600 - £900, which my mum thinks is rediculously exancive... What does she think a Violin is!?
Zhuologist
Jul 9 2007, 04:14 PM
Hello Moon,
Don't be afraid to look abroad in your search for the "perfect" violin - I found mine at Fiddleheads, in Canada. It's run by a professional violinist, Rhiannon Schmidt, who has set up a truly inspiring website (www.fiddleheads.ca) with a range of quality new and used instruments. Her current selection includes, for example, a bench-made 2006 Andreas Jovani, described as "perfect for a professional musician or advanced student". It's just over £1000, plus carriage. I think I paid around £80 carriage on my Zhu, which was supplied on trial.
Someone suggested West Country violins, in Sidmouth. If you wish to stay closer to home, they're well worth a look, too. I spent an evening listening to their sound clips only to discover, embarrassingly, my favourite was the cheapest in stock, at around £350. Then again, it was a very scruffy example. Not orange, as I recall! Good luck with your search.
phantasmagoriana
Jul 9 2007, 09:59 PM
I know what you mean about "brown" violins...I was keen to get a dark brown one when I was violin shopping (a few years ago now). I did eventually get one, from West Country Violins, and it has served me well. But looking back, I think I would pay less attention to colour if doing the same again. If you love the sound, looks shouldn't matter too much.
Incidentally, when I was looking at violas, I was somewhat put off by the "orange" colour of my Gliga (relative to my violin - the Gliga really isn't that orange at all), but it's grown on me!
notmusimum
Jul 9 2007, 10:08 PM
QUOTE(moon @ Jul 8 2007, 02:43 PM)

I know this sounds a bit silly, but what shade of brown/orange/red is your violin? What colour do you like?
For the past year, on and off I've been looking for my perfect violin...now I've found it, but I don't like the colour! I like shades of brown, but this violin is a kinda like a light orangey/brown that is more of an orange kinda colour. I'm not sure about it. I'm upgrading from a cheap £150 student violin and my budget is a max of £1500. This violin would be life and I doubt I'll upgrade again. I must have tried about 20 plus violins, my teacher always found some minor faults with them e.g tone isn't clear enough, it's difficult to tune, it sounds too bright or too deep etc. He told me that I can't expect a really good violin for £1500, his one cost £10,000 and the "cheap" violin he uses for teaching is £1500!. But the latest violin I tried, he said it sounds really good but the only problem is that I don't like the colour! Everyone in my practice orchestra has a brown colour string instrument, and if you go to a show and watch an orchestra they tend to have brown colour instruments as well. To be honest, all the violins I tried sound similar to me I don't know what a good violin should sound like, so I have to trust my teacher, and if he said this one is good, it must be as he's a professional.
Unless I keep this violin, I've run out of music shops to try! Does anyone know any shops that sell second hand violins in London, Essex or Surrey area?
Sorry this thread made me laugh!! Reminds me too much of conversations I have at work with customers about the colour of their floors
LDW
Jul 11 2007, 01:15 AM
QUOTE(moon @ Jul 8 2007, 02:43 PM)

I know this sounds a bit silly, but what shade of brown/orange/red is your violin? What colour do you like?
For the past year, on and off I've been looking for my perfect violin...now I've found it, but I don't like the colour! I like shades of brown, but this violin is a kinda like a light orangey/brown that is more of an orange kinda colour. I'm not sure about it. I'm upgrading from a cheap £150 student violin and my budget is a max of £1500. This violin would be life and I doubt I'll upgrade again. I must have tried about 20 plus violins, my teacher always found some minor faults with them e.g tone isn't clear enough, it's difficult to tune, it sounds too bright or too deep etc. He told me that I can't expect a really good violin for £1500, his one cost £10,000 and the "cheap" violin he uses for teaching is £1500!. But the latest violin I tried, he said it sounds really good but the only problem is that I don't like the colour! Everyone in my practice orchestra has a brown colour string instrument, and if you go to a show and watch an orchestra they tend to have brown colour instruments as well. To be honest, all the violins I tried sound similar to me I don't know what a good violin should sound like, so I have to trust my teacher, and if he said this one is good, it must be as he's a professional.
Unless I keep this violin, I've run out of music shops to try! Does anyone know any shops that sell second hand violins in London, Essex or Surrey area?
Yes, it DOES sound a bit silly - at least the quote from your teacher does.
If your budget is £1500, then that's your budget. Telling you in a snooty way that 'you can't expect a really good violin' for that price is at best unhelpful - and at worst a piece of pretentious gittery.
Liz is right: if all the violins you've tried sound similar, you are not ready to spend £1500. You will certainly not get what you want. No wonder you're obsessing over the colour!
A motion to adjourn is always in order. And try another teacher.
nova
Jul 11 2007, 09:33 AM
QUOTE(LDW @ Jul 11 2007, 02:15 AM)

QUOTE(moon @ Jul 8 2007, 02:43 PM)

I know this sounds a bit silly, but what shade of brown/orange/red is your violin? What colour do you like?
For the past year, on and off I've been looking for my perfect violin...now I've found it, but I don't like the colour! I like shades of brown, but this violin is a kinda like a light orangey/brown that is more of an orange kinda colour. I'm not sure about it. I'm upgrading from a cheap £150 student violin and my budget is a max of £1500. This violin would be life and I doubt I'll upgrade again. I must have tried about 20 plus violins, my teacher always found some minor faults with them e.g tone isn't clear enough, it's difficult to tune, it sounds too bright or too deep etc. He told me that I can't expect a really good violin for £1500, his one cost £10,000 and the "cheap" violin he uses for teaching is £1500!. But the latest violin I tried, he said it sounds really good but the only problem is that I don't like the colour! Everyone in my practice orchestra has a brown colour string instrument, and if you go to a show and watch an orchestra they tend to have brown colour instruments as well. To be honest, all the violins I tried sound similar to me I don't know what a good violin should sound like, so I have to trust my teacher, and if he said this one is good, it must be as he's a professional.
Unless I keep this violin, I've run out of music shops to try! Does anyone know any shops that sell second hand violins in London, Essex or Surrey area?
Yes, it DOES sound a bit silly - at least the quote from your teacher does.
If your budget is £1500, then that's your budget. Telling you in a snooty way that 'you can't expect a really good violin' for that price is at best unhelpful - and at worst a piece of pretentious gittery.
Liz is right: if all the violins you've tried sound similar, you are not ready to spend £1500. You will certainly not get what you want. No wonder you're obsessing over the colour!
A motion to adjourn is always in order. And try another teacher.
Hi again, I didn't notice the bit about your budget of £1500: for what it's worth my violin has been valued at about that price and has been much admired (in terms of its playing quality and sound rather than appearance) by several people including my teacher.
I can't help feeling that you have been given unhelpful advice on this - what about sticking with the one you have for a while, putting the money away in an account where it might get a bit bigger, and thinking again about a replacement when you feel like trusting your own judgement on violin sound rather than your teacher's alone?
N
LDW
Jul 12 2007, 04:34 AM
Just another thought: you might like to go to the West Country Violins website and listen to the sound samples they have there: this will help you educate your ear about the differences in sound of violins - and possibly relate sound to price!
brillil
Jul 13 2007, 08:34 PM
if your looking in surrey for a good violin shop i got mine (£800 and i love it) in a great shops, on rose hill near sutton called MJ healey violins and they were really helpfull!
the colour is lightish brown and is really nice, the sound is good too!
i throughly recommend this shop!!!
BBTOTW
Jul 13 2007, 09:19 PM
My brother got his violin from Newton Violins, near Redhill. The owner (?) is the person who invented coloured violins

The violins there range from student models to reeeealy expensive ones!
*emelda*
Jul 19 2007, 09:13 AM
I was lucky because I have inherited TWO good quality violins, so I haven't had to go through the buying process since I bought my first violin! Sorry it's being a nuisance, but I can't help with where to buy from - no London shops experience.
LDW
Jul 21 2007, 10:47 AM
I've always had very helpful service from Malcolm Tysoe: www.tysoe-music.com - don't know if that counts as London or not, but it's not a million miles from the Surrey border!
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