hello ever1 again.
I wanted to know some websites (or just some tips) on accompanying (not sure how that's spelt). This is coz i get really bored of playing the "lyrics" of a song and i want to learn how to accompany music.Thanx soooooo much.
Full Version: Accompanying(playing With A Singer)
Ah I could go on forever about this!
This is something that has annoyed me right from the word go, when you buy a piece of music and your piano just sings the tune. This can be good at some points but not at all times.
The only "tip" I can think of when actually accompanying a singer is to give a little extra more in the bass because when a singer is singing, they're generally in the upper registers of the piano anyway so to add to the depth of the performance a little more, don't be so hasty to ease off your bass notes.
Now as to creating accompaniments, I generally do it on the fly. I work totally around the chord symbols which you should find in practically every contempory publication of popular music. Here are a couple of my methods:
First practise just getting and octave span in your left hand so you can easiy find the notes in the bass. It's a lot more effective than using just single notes because whilst increasing the tonality you're producing, it will give you greater awareness of the position of the other keys under your fingers. In your right hand, find the chord in root position (ie if it's a C Major: I III V = C E G) and play around with these notes. You can do what you want with them depending on the tempo/mood of the piece. You might want to create a rocking motion (ie playing E G then C back to E G then C etc.) or keeping the pulse playing the triad on each beat. For examples of this, listen to Beautiful by Christina Aguilara (sorry I never know how to spell her name) or Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. In other cases, you could zip up and down the chord playing arpeggios/broken chords, like a guitarist would do (listen to Your Song by Elton John).
However, you could bring a lot more musicality to the accompaniment by playing elements of the tune here and there to accent what is being sung or add your own fills so that your piano doesn't end up sounding like a piece of machinery churning out the same stuff over and over again.
In your left hand - and I find this works well for most pop pieces - create a legato feel by finding the root of your chord then going up to the fifth note, playing the octave of that note, then back down to the fifth ( ||: I --> V --> 8ve --> V :|| ) whilst using your chord in the right hand.
If you are playing just an octave in your bass and your chord sequence goes something like this: C Dm Am F, you may want to make your bass notes chromatic:
R: C / / / Dm / / / Am / / / F / / /
L: C / / /C# / D / D# / E / F
( / = one beat)
Of course probably not exactly like that but maybe have the tonic equal a double dotted minim and the sharpened tonic equal a quaver.
Be careful not to take your chord too high unless you want to make your accompaniment extremely light. I generally like to stray no higher than middle C to the G above unless it suits the mood.
Don't be afraid to stray away from root chord positions, it will sound jerky and unpractised if you do. Practise and LEARN your inversions of chords. Once you know the major and minor triads, add in the 7th notes (in all inversions) then learn the 9th notes, then the Sus4 chords... after that you should be able to get away with anything!
Once you know your chords you will be able to just do any piece whether you've heard it before or not (remember to look at the tempo!). You should try to follow the dynamic markings as usual but more importantly: follow the singer! If the vocalist builds up to a crescendo, you do it too!
Hmmm, this has inspired me to write more. I may do a formal article on this and post it on my website, would anybody be interested? By the way, I have no qualifications to back it up! This is just a tried and tested method and I know I've missed loads out.
Please email me about anything regards this post, good or bad.
Daley, 15
daleybrennan@hotmail.com
This is something that has annoyed me right from the word go, when you buy a piece of music and your piano just sings the tune. This can be good at some points but not at all times.
The only "tip" I can think of when actually accompanying a singer is to give a little extra more in the bass because when a singer is singing, they're generally in the upper registers of the piano anyway so to add to the depth of the performance a little more, don't be so hasty to ease off your bass notes.
Now as to creating accompaniments, I generally do it on the fly. I work totally around the chord symbols which you should find in practically every contempory publication of popular music. Here are a couple of my methods:
First practise just getting and octave span in your left hand so you can easiy find the notes in the bass. It's a lot more effective than using just single notes because whilst increasing the tonality you're producing, it will give you greater awareness of the position of the other keys under your fingers. In your right hand, find the chord in root position (ie if it's a C Major: I III V = C E G) and play around with these notes. You can do what you want with them depending on the tempo/mood of the piece. You might want to create a rocking motion (ie playing E G then C back to E G then C etc.) or keeping the pulse playing the triad on each beat. For examples of this, listen to Beautiful by Christina Aguilara (sorry I never know how to spell her name) or Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. In other cases, you could zip up and down the chord playing arpeggios/broken chords, like a guitarist would do (listen to Your Song by Elton John).
However, you could bring a lot more musicality to the accompaniment by playing elements of the tune here and there to accent what is being sung or add your own fills so that your piano doesn't end up sounding like a piece of machinery churning out the same stuff over and over again.
In your left hand - and I find this works well for most pop pieces - create a legato feel by finding the root of your chord then going up to the fifth note, playing the octave of that note, then back down to the fifth ( ||: I --> V --> 8ve --> V :|| ) whilst using your chord in the right hand.
If you are playing just an octave in your bass and your chord sequence goes something like this: C Dm Am F, you may want to make your bass notes chromatic:
R: C / / / Dm / / / Am / / / F / / /
L: C / / /C# / D / D# / E / F
( / = one beat)
Of course probably not exactly like that but maybe have the tonic equal a double dotted minim and the sharpened tonic equal a quaver.
Be careful not to take your chord too high unless you want to make your accompaniment extremely light. I generally like to stray no higher than middle C to the G above unless it suits the mood.
Don't be afraid to stray away from root chord positions, it will sound jerky and unpractised if you do. Practise and LEARN your inversions of chords. Once you know the major and minor triads, add in the 7th notes (in all inversions) then learn the 9th notes, then the Sus4 chords... after that you should be able to get away with anything!
Once you know your chords you will be able to just do any piece whether you've heard it before or not (remember to look at the tempo!). You should try to follow the dynamic markings as usual but more importantly: follow the singer! If the vocalist builds up to a crescendo, you do it too!
Hmmm, this has inspired me to write more. I may do a formal article on this and post it on my website, would anybody be interested? By the way, I have no qualifications to back it up! This is just a tried and tested method and I know I've missed loads out.
Please email me about anything regards this post, good or bad.
Daley, 15
daleybrennan@hotmail.com
| QUOTE |
| Please email me about anything regards this post, good or bad. |
wow freda_bloogs! That's really good advice!!
You must be really knowlegeable about classical piano playing and pop music. You remind me of this person I heard on the radio *. this person wrote the tune for 'Angels' by Robbie Williams. I think he was classically trained as a musician.post more stuff on the forums!!
i'm sure you've got some more interesting stuff to say! 
*there was this radio programme called Vox Pop and the episode i was listening to had Charles Hazlewood on. He was doing an 'investigation' to see what makes pop music...pop music. it was really interesting. They talked a lot about the structure of a song, melody, etc. It was v.v. interesting programme. Did anyone else listen to it?
yeah! i did! it was very interesting! and freda_bloggs, that advice really helps! wow!
Thanks, I've only been playing less than two years so I'm only on the grade 4 book with my teacher (she teaches me little!) so I do a lot on my own. I don't know as much as most of you guys on here though!I must admit I noticed a mistake. This should've been something more along the lines of:
R: C / / / Dm / / / Am / / / F / / /
L: C / / C# D / / D# E / / / F / / /
It probably had something to do with how late it was (just before 3am I think
) so I wasn't thinking straight.I should probably also add how important it is to keep some sort of fluidity through out the piece. You can't just play odd chords and hope it sounds good. Be it a consistant rhythm or a ground bass, even if it's just 1, 2, 3, 4 it will help.
| QUOTE |
| this person wrote the tune for 'Angels' by Robbie Williams. I think he was classically trained as a musician. |
That guy was a man named Guy Chambers, I like a lot of his stuff. Now that Robbie doesn't work with him anymore, it'll be his downfall I'm sure. If you get the chance to learn Feel, do!
| QUOTE |
| I'm only on the grade 4 book with my teacher |
whoooooah! i bet you're on a much higher standard than grade 4!
Do you play any other instruments as well? I play piano and drums so I learn quite a lot on classical music with my piano teacher whereas with my drum teacher, i learn more on pop/rock/jazz which is really cool! What other music are you into? I'm really into Keane at the moment! | QUOTE |
| If you get the chance to learn Feel, do! |
do you know feel? I can work out the chords in the right hand but i can't coordinate it with the bass (probably cos i'm not sure on the rhythm!) I agree with you that Robbie's new stuff is not gonna be near as good as his old(ish) material. He's apparently going for a more 'rock' sound but i think thats a bad choice!
Yeah my piano teacher is 100% classically orientated. We don't do anything of the sort of jazz or rock (my favourite!) nevermind pop, crikey, that's sinful.
I took clarinet lessons in primary school but they weren't really up to anything. There was no such thing as theory. It's only since I've taken up the piano that I've begun to teach myself bass guitar, guitar and drums (can't afford lessons
).
[QUOTE]What other music are you into?
Queen, Queen and Queen. I love 'em, possibily the best band ever. Just because they were so innovative and different. Don't mind a bit of Meat Loaf here and there or The Darkness.
Don't know if I'm much higher, I'd need someone to tell me. I don't know what grades any of the pieces I do on my own are and I'm always doing dead easy stuff to practise sight reading.
Are you doing Feel from manuscript or by ear?
I took clarinet lessons in primary school but they weren't really up to anything. There was no such thing as theory. It's only since I've taken up the piano that I've begun to teach myself bass guitar, guitar and drums (can't afford lessons
).[QUOTE]What other music are you into?
Queen, Queen and Queen. I love 'em, possibily the best band ever. Just because they were so innovative and different. Don't mind a bit of Meat Loaf here and there or The Darkness.
Don't know if I'm much higher, I'd need someone to tell me. I don't know what grades any of the pieces I do on my own are and I'm always doing dead easy stuff to practise sight reading.
Are you doing Feel from manuscript or by ear?
If you are as disatisfied as you seem to be why are you staying with that teacher?
And if you show the attitude in your lessons that suggests that you feel as you say you do I think your teacher will be getting a bit fed up too
And if you show the attitude in your lessons that suggests that you feel as you say you do I think your teacher will be getting a bit fed up too
hello!
guess what? I LOVE QUEEN TO!!!! I went to see We Will Rock You (Queen musical) recently and now i'm hooked!! I liked them before but after seeing the musical, i pay them full respect! I've also recently been listening to Genesis and Pink Floyd. They're both really different and very creative with their music. Is it just me but music in the pop charts is (in my opinion) no way near as creative or original as oldies stuff! Don't get me wrong, i don't just listen to oldies music (!!) , i like to keep up to date with the top 40.
you know, you can do jazz piano which i really would love to do! I'm hopefully going on a jazz workshop sometime in November @ Wigmore Hall. It sounds really good, they're gonna have a proffesional rhythm section and you can play whatever instrument you want to!
I'm trying to do Feel by ear (i've got perfect pitch, sorry don't mean to boast!) but still not suceeding very well are you into other stuff apart from rock (eg Queen). i think coldplay are brill and i would love them to do some more stuff soon! I also like stereophonics, the thrills, the killers. Not into avril lavigne (dunno why? to girly?), or Busted/Mcfly (they all merge into one!!) Arrrgh, can't stand them! 
what piano pieces are you learning by yourself? just wondering, do you have a drum kit @ home? i do, takes up a lot of space!
guess what? I LOVE QUEEN TO!!!! I went to see We Will Rock You (Queen musical) recently and now i'm hooked!! I liked them before but after seeing the musical, i pay them full respect! I've also recently been listening to Genesis and Pink Floyd. They're both really different and very creative with their music. Is it just me but music in the pop charts is (in my opinion) no way near as creative or original as oldies stuff! Don't get me wrong, i don't just listen to oldies music (!!) , i like to keep up to date with the top 40.
you know, you can do jazz piano which i really would love to do! I'm hopefully going on a jazz workshop sometime in November @ Wigmore Hall. It sounds really good, they're gonna have a proffesional rhythm section and you can play whatever instrument you want to!
I'm trying to do Feel by ear (i've got perfect pitch
, sorry don't mean to boast!) but still not suceeding very well are you into other stuff apart from rock (eg Queen). i think coldplay are brill and i would love them to do some more stuff soon! I also like stereophonics, the thrills, the killers. Not into avril lavigne (dunno why? to girly?), or Busted/Mcfly (they all merge into one!!) Arrrgh, can't stand them! what piano pieces are you learning by yourself? just wondering, do you have a drum kit @ home? i do, takes up a lot of space!
| QUOTE |
| If you are as disatisfied as you seem to be why are you staying with that teacher? |
Ooops, I didn't mean to imply that I was dissatisfied with her teaching, it's brill and I believe being classically trained is such an advantage.
| QUOTE |
| what piano pieces are you learning by yourself? just wondering, do you have a drum kit @ home? |
Everything that I do that's pop/rock/jazz is on my own. I'm currently on Sonata K 545 (1st movement) and Ronda Alla Turca (I'm into Mozart at the moment). I've done The Entertainer, a number of other classical pieces, every song on the Bat out ###### Album and every song on Queen Greatest Hits 1 & 2 (be it on guitar or piano). Nope I gave my drum kit away about a year ago, then I started to learn!
| QUOTE |
| I went to see We Will Rock You |
I am soooo jealous!!! I can't get down to London easily (it's like a 3 hour train ride and they're never on time) so I can't really go at the moment. Sad to say, I've been to a number of tributes though!
| QUOTE |
| you know, you can do jazz piano |
I did yeah, but I've never really looked into it. Does anyone know how it differs from "standard" learning/teaching? I never really get to hear of these workshops etc. for they all seem to ask for Grade 7 and above
In Feel, use the tonic of the chord in the left hand as an octave (except the opening riff thingy where it's a D). Ah but with perfect pitch, I suppose you knew that! I ahve a weird type of "perfect pitch" so I'm told, in that if a digital piano is on transpose and I hit a note I know if its out of not and whether its shard/flat and by how much but I'm no good at actually naming notes. So is that actually perfect pitch? Crikey, I rambled then. I know the bass guitar does weird things (back to Feel again) but I can't really see a point in learning it. Beware the slash chords! If you want a full chord list of it, I'll see what I can do, email me or something.
I like Coldplay too, but everyone plays Clocks or The Scientist all lunchtime and I get angry!
you sound like a queen fan!! you would love we will rock you, outside on the theatre roof,they have a huge statue of Freddie Mercury doing his famous 'punching in the air' pose. you look at it and think, Hail freddie mercury, hail queen!! 
you said you've done every song on Queen Greatest hits 1 & 2. Do you know Bohemian Rhapsody? If you do...wow!! I wanna learn it so badly!
the jazz workshop that i'm hoping to go to asks for a minimum standard of Grade 3. (which is a good thing cos i've only just passed grade 3 on drums!)
I know them! I did Sonata K 545 after i did grade 5 on piano. It's a cute piece! And apparently he composed it when he was six! Wow!! Rondo Alla Turca is a nice piece too. I haven't done it myself but I've got a recording of it. About you learning drums... why don't you get a practise pad ? (they're just a circular pad of rubber which you can get from most music shops) they're really good for building up technique (rudiments, here we come!! )
Good luck with your music!
ps i'm sure people could give you loads of infomation on jazz piano on the Jazz Forum. I don't do that much jazz but it's still a very interesting forum!
you said you've done every song on Queen Greatest hits 1 & 2. Do you know Bohemian Rhapsody? If you do...wow!! I wanna learn it so badly! | QUOTE |
| I never really get to hear of these workshops etc. for they all seem to ask for Grade 7 and above |
the jazz workshop that i'm hoping to go to asks for a minimum standard of Grade 3. (which is a good thing cos i've only just passed grade 3 on drums!)
| QUOTE |
| I'm currently on Sonata K 545 (1st movement) and Ronda Alla Turca |
I know them! I did Sonata K 545 after i did grade 5 on piano. It's a cute piece!
And apparently he composed it when he was six! Wow!! Rondo Alla Turca is a nice piece too. I haven't done it myself but I've got a recording of it. About you learning drums... why don't you get a practise pad ? (they're just a circular pad of rubber which you can get from most music shops) they're really good for building up technique (rudiments, here we come!! )Good luck with your music!
ps i'm sure people could give you loads of infomation on jazz piano on the Jazz Forum. I don't do that much jazz but it's still a very interesting forum!
Yeah I know Bo Rhap (sad, but the accompaniment that Fred plays and the tune). If you can, do the fills by ear as much as possible because the ones in the book are pants. And I mean totally pants.
I'm not seriously into the drums, I'm not learning them as such I just pick things up when I can and if people are really really stuck for a drummer I'm a last resort.
Ooooh learn Love of my Life (the original) it's really good!
I'm not seriously into the drums, I'm not learning them as such I just pick things up when I can and if people are really really stuck for a drummer I'm a last resort.
Ooooh learn Love of my Life (the original) it's really good!
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