My daughter has just started learning forward exentions on the cello. Last week she just had an exercise in which she had to practise putting her second finger in the right place and that was all right. This week she has got a piece to play which uses the first, second and fourth fingers and she is having problems.

In her notebook her teacher has written that she has to move her second finger to where her third finger would usually go and move her thumb at the same time so that it always stays under the second finger. She complains that it hurts her hand to stretch so far and her first finger keeps creeping down the fingerboard. This afternoon I tried (her cello is too small for me so my arm and elbow are in the wrong place but even so) I found it almost impossible to keep the first finger down while I was playing with the fourth finger. What seemed more natural to me was to keep only the second finger down and use it as a sort of pivot to move my wrist and stretch up to the fourth finger or stretch back to the first finger (I'm finding this quite hard to put into words but I hope you know what I mean). I asked her if her teacher had said she had to always keep the first finger down and she said she couldn't remember.

I will obviously tell her to ask her teacher (and might even ask if she will demonstrate for me as well) but until the next lesson could anyone tell me whether I should be encouraging her to move her wrist or to keep the first finger down?

Thanks

It sounds like she's effectively in second position with a backwards extension according to what you've said (especially with the moving thumb). Place the three fingers and slide the other one back - you should be able to keep them all down just as you do with a backwards extension. Remember to keep them as straight as possible and not to lean them like on a violin.

Allan

I'm afraid this leaves me even more confused. She hasn't done backwards extensions yet.
I thought a backward extension was like half-position on a violin for example to get B flat on the A string.
Can you really have your first finger on E and your fourth finger on G# at the same time?

Yes, you can have your first finger on E and fourth on G# at the same time, and it's what you should eventually be aiming to do. However, you can't rush this - your fingers will be able to stretch more and more over time, but you risk injury if you rush in and try to stretch big intervals from the start.

Tell your daughter to let her finger move forward a little bit, but still try and stretch it back to some extent - having it somewhere between E and F is probably the ideal for now. Do check with the teacher, and if she's finding it's hurting more than just the ache of stretching muscles that aren't used to stretching, tell her to stop. She shouldn't be practising this extended hand position for more than about a minute at a time at first.

Thanks cellocase, that makes sense.

Yes, if I was playing a g sharp on the d string, I would (as my teacher tells me!) keep my other fingers down , one on e etc, to return quickly to E F natural etc

However in the case of a young person, I would have thought that it would have been ok to shift to the second position, one on F etc.

As cello case says though, it is good to keep giving extended positions, a little practice

It is important to gently and slowly persevere with this stretch, as playing any piece in e.g A or D major, or even just those scales, will mean using that position a lot. You don't say how old your daughter is, or what size cello she plays, but it is generally held that one has to be able to stretch a major third, if you can't, then the cello is too big. Perhaps she is growing into it still?

I am an adult with very small hands and play a full size cello, and can only just reach. And yes, it hurts, but does get easier over time. Not that I would ever recommend pushing a child through the pain barrier!

I do understand what you say about the pivot method around the second finger, I do it myself at times when I feel to lazy to stretch, but as it involves a bit of hopping it does not do much for secure intonation. Sometimes physical limitations can force you into a compromise though, but I think that is more the case for adult learners where flexibility is more of a problem.

Has she started using higher positions yet? She may be able to stretch to the approved configuration in third or fourth position, where notes are beginning to get closer.

She is nine and a half and has a half size cello. I don't think the cello is too big for her and her hands have actually grown a lot over the past few months. Her teacher said at the end of the last school year that she would be teaching her fourth position before extensions to leave her time to grow a bit more so I assume that her teacher now thinks she has grown enough.


Yes she has learnt fourth position but I think what her teacher wants is now to get her used to playing extensions in first positions.

She has a lesson tomorrow so I will check with her teacher. I did notice, however, in her practise today that she was stretching further so I will also follow the advice given her and wait for long term progress.

I think just telling her what everyone said about it being something that takes time allowed her to take some of the pressure of herself (she always wants to be perfect for her next lesson) and being more relaxed meant she could stretch better as well.

I do feel for your daughter, wanting to be perfect for the next lesson! I know the feeling exactly, the frustrations of learning are many. On the up side, she has plenty of time and may well be 'perfect' one day. As a learner firmly stuck in middle age my prospects are more limited of course. O, if only I was 9 again.......