I had to post about this as I am at present too shy to ask my violin teacher!
I have had 3 lessons with him so far, I like him, he teaches well (I think so, have nobody to compare him to) but he is almost irritating (although hopefully I 'may' be starting to get used to him).
Every other sentence he says is about 'giving more passion to the music I play', 'make it sound loud' 'lively' 'give it some expression' 'go for it', 'it is good but this time really give it some life!'.
Ok, I feel like screaming and telling him: 'I UNDERSTAND YOU WANT ME TO GIVE IT MORE PASSION AND I HAVE IT INGRAINED IN MY HEAD NOW BUT GIVE ME A CHANCE!!!!!!!!!'
I know what he means and I know where he's coming from, music is not just about hitting the right notes and the right rythm, especially with violin as I am discovering, but I am merely a beginner who is learning a lot all at once and am still learning how to keep my posture right, my bow right, my violin holding right. I feel that if he gave me time to 'mature a bit', feel a little more confident then the 'passion' he talks about will be easier to 'give' in my playing, my brain is just too busy learning at present!
Do you think he is not aware of how irritating he is or do you think he HAS to be so insistent on this 'expression side of music' as if he 'hammers me with it' now then it will pay off later?
I don't know, any thoughts?

Sounds a bit early on in the learning process to be pushing that much for expression.

A lot of beginner violinists make a very thin, feeble, lifeless sound, almost as if they are afraid to make a noise that someone else might hear. I'm not saying that you sound like that (because I haven't heard you play), but maybe your teacher is just trying to get you to sound more committed to the sound that you are making. So on your own, and only using open strings, you could just try experimenting to get the loudess sound that you can make from your violin. Try varying different things, for example how fast you are moving the bow, the position of the bow on the string, the amount of pressure you are using to keep the bow on the string etc. Aim to make the nicest, loudest sound that you possibly can. Once you know how to do this then you will have more control over the sound that you make and will be able to play with more 'passion'.

Thank you Purple Viola, I think I am not that feeble thin or lifeless when I play but I will certainly do the exercises you pointed out as I am sure I can improve.
He is talking more about giving my music expression, for example...when I played the 'goldfish tune' from waggon wheels, he said:'what is this piece called?', 'goldfish' 'hence try to make it sound like a goldfish swirling around in its bowl' and he plays the piece for me...he means making the movements from the bow more smooth, making the music less loud at the beginning and towards the end of a phrase and louder in middle etc I just get annoyed as he repeats these things virtually ALL THE TIME, like I said every other phrase from him is about this, maybe I just have to get used to him or wear earplugs (virtual ones, ie: switch my brain off every other phrase he says ). Yes he also talks about making the sound louder, like I have to reach the audience at the other end of the hall with my music, that is probably because I already thought it was loud enough (obviously being with my ear right against violin ), I guess earplugs are REALLY in order for that as I am sensitive to loud noises LOL
By the way, in technique he thinks I am progressing well and even too fast! He is also very happy about what an improvement I have made with my posture, bow hold etc.
Jo

Did somebody call?

I think it is hard to play with expression on some of the pieces early stage violinists get to play, as they are not always very inspiring. Also sometimes as a learner there is a trade off or compromise between "control" and good technique and "expression" and letting yourself go a bit. Perhaps he just wants you to move a bit more towards letting yourself go even if it is sightly at the expense of control in the early stages. If your natural tendancy is to keep your playing very much under control then pushing the expression a bit more might give you a better balance developing expression whilst not letting your techique slip.

It is hard isn't it!

I'm finding it hard to do all the things at once. I 'feel' all the passion I want to put into the music but if I 'let go' on that then my bow slides all over the place, or my fingers land in the wrong bit because it feels like everything is not under control yet! (I'm at grade 2)

I also sound much more 'quiet' at my lessons than I do at home because my teacher says I tense my shoulders and don't use the 'whole' of the bow... when I do ease my shoulders in my lesson my sound becomes much larger and more expressive!

It must be part of the learning process... Good luck...

Many beginners get a bit hung up on control and become too careful with everthing - perhaps more so with adults or older children, as they tend to be far more 'aware' of their body and any mistakes they make. Yes, your playing needs to be controlled, but you have to gradually develop a controlled version of 'letting go'. Remaining fully in control isn't always a good thing, although there are some soloists who let go at the expense of rythmn and clarity of the notes....

It's a fine line between the two and I agree that in the very early stages of learning there is so much information for the brain to assimilate, you tend to only be able to concentrate on one aspect at a time. A suggestion I tend to make to my pupils, is to make a list of the things you know you need to concentrate on. For example, posture, bow arm, tone production. When you play a scale, piece or study, concentrate on just one of those aspects. On the next playing, concentrate on the second aspect and so on. Then try to combine two of them and eventually all three. For a while this may mean using the same process for each new piece of music, so as to ensure you aren't concentrating on the notes so much, you forget about everything else - bow all over the place, poor posture etc.

I come off my anti depressants a few days before a concert and go 'cold turkey' always gives me more passion in a performance...

My teacher has pegged me at Grade 4 standard but he told me the other day that my ffs sounded way too timid for ffs! Then I told him that I was afraid my violin would squeak. Like what you've been saying on this board, he told me to experiment with different ways of producing a louder sound - more bow speed, more bow pressure and thirdly, he didn't recommend this way but it was to play nearer the bridge.

In terms of passion, I do agree beginner pieces are quite passion-less. There isn't much you can feel really. Do try to tell your teacher that you're trying. Maybe he'll get the hint and lay off abit. =) Am very happy about your fast fast progress jo! We've a violin maestro in the making!

To be honest, Jojo, I think the most important worry you have here is communication with your teacher! I know they can be scary monsters at times and we can look up to them as all knowing and so on, but the longer you leave telling him that you're finding it a bit OTT, the harder it will get. Something that might help is simply asking for clarification and even saying something like that you're not feeling ready for that at the moment and it's enough to deal with technique for you at the moment and can we please leave emotion for a few more weeks? You don't want to end up being unable to benefit from your teacher as you can't feel able to voice your true feelings and concerns to him. He can't teach you properly if you can't freely feedback, or what do you say?

Elizabeth's got a good point - at least if you tell him that you're not sure what he's after and how to create the effects he is looking for, he has a chance to explain and rethink what he's doing.

I definetely agree Elizabeth.
So far I have been trying to 'hint' with face expressions, sighs etc and saying 'I know I know, but..'
I will have to be assertive and tell him what I really feel which is this:
'I am very aware that I may sound a bit 'robotic' in my music making at present, but I tend to be a type of person who likes to make sure I have all my building blocks right and then I start experimenting on going faster/louder/softer etc, I don't feel I have the confidence to do those things until I am absolutely sure in myself that I have the technique right. I am not too sure that it might be the right way to be, but maybe I need the time to find out for myself which is the right way to be. I am now always aware that I need to put passion in a piece as you made sure I knew how important this is and I agree with you, it is important so I will make sure that in my time I will make more 'expressive' music'
WOW, that is a bit of a mouthful!!!
Now, whether I will be able to say it or not is a different matter as sometimes I can be incredibly childish and shy!

Mmm, yes, you do need to say something. Sighing etc can just make the student come across as bored and unco-operative, (I'm a teacher, so I know!! ), so it's best to voice your concerns. Just keep it simple and to the point. "I understand what you're saying and I do agree in principle, it's just that I don't feel ready for that just yet. Would it be OK if we were to just concentrate on technique for a few more lessons until I feel confident enough to really give it some welly?' along with great big smile!!

Yes, that is a nice, simple way of saying it, but maybe by the time I 'pluck up the courage' to say it the few lessons will have gone by and by then I'll be able to 'give it some welly' anyway
mmmmm, time will tell

Go for it, Hun, you won't regret it! I have a little saying: The harder something is to say, the more it needs saying! Take the strain out of your lessons and go for it!

If your teacher is irritating you this much at this early stage, perhaps he's just the wrong teacher for you? If the thought of switching teachers fills you with relief, then maybe ask around about the other teachers in your area and other people's experiences of them?

Or is he a peripatetic teacher at your school?

If this is the case, how about writing him a short letter telling him how his tactics are making you feel? This could give him pause for thought, if it's just too difficult to say it to his face. Frankly I think it's a bit early for him to be telling you to play with passion - you've got a lot of technical stuff to work out first so why the rush? Ther are plenty of great players out there whose teachers spent the first few weeks focussing entirely on the technical side. After all, you don't learn to dance before you can walk and you don't learn how to write poetry before you can form the letters, do you?

Good luck!

Violinia

You're a mum, jojo, and if one of your children was in a situation like this, you'd speak up for them wouldn't you. Wouldn't you?

Why do any less for yourself? Pretend you're one of your own childen (bizarre, I know, but try it!) and speak up for yourself - you'll feel ten times infinitely better afterwards!

Thank you Violinia,
no, the thought of switching teachers does not fill me with relief, I do actually like him a lot so far, it is just this 'glitch' and although I find it irritating how he keeps telling me every other phrase to give it passion, obviously he's not irritating me enough to think of finding another teacher
I was just wondering whether this was such an important aspect from day one with a learner or whether he is just 'obsessed by it', it sounds more like obsession as a few people have said that although 'passion is important one could concentrate on technique in the beginning.



Forgot to thank you Amanda,
yours is a very good suggestion which makes sense and I will apply this to my practice from today.
Thank you.