Well, I've been playing piano for 5 years, and it's recently been dawning on me that I can't play the piano to save my life. I've not got a single piece I can call "complete" or whatever. It's like an uphill struggle to do ANYTHING. Even when it's getting to final stages of being "complete", it seems to fall apart again and takes ages to rebuild. e.g Debussy's Sarabande, played it for over a year and STILL can't play it properly because something ALWAYS goes wrong!!! And really this isn't exactly encouraging.

Think I'll just quit piano...

yeah, give up now I say. After 5 years you must be able to string a few notes together surely?

But not to a good standard

How high a standard do you want to be? I'm sure some people would give their eye teeth to play what you can.....sometimes you have to be satisfied with your lot

Rather than quit altogether, why not just focus on the instruments that are important to you and keep the piano playing as just something you do from time to time.

Go back and do some less stretching stuff, and enjoy just playing that rather than pitting your wits against a really tough work like the Debussy.

Ok chris give up !

I have been playing 8 years and haven't got as far as you probably have.

Keyboard skills are so very useful. Don't give up but use your piano playing to study accompaniments to your recorder pieces, for studying of harmony and counterpoint, for helping out at rehearsals, for helping with aural tests and other work, to accompany lower grade exams if you need to earn spare cash, for helping with composition and for the fun of playing. Everyone has off days. Keep the piano as a tool of your trade as a future musician.

YES - EVERYONE HAS OFF DAYS.

My engineering studies at uni is so so so difficult and I am facing new challenges every day - the most stressful thing is not lectures, but supervisions and report mark up sessions where you have to discuss things with experts. The marks given in the markup sessions will count towards the uni exam. To be honest, I sometimes got quite depressed after these becos the some of the markers were not nice and they said we should not do this and that blah blah.. I would feel uncomfortable for the afternoon as some marks have been deducted from my yearly exam. Well then, can I give up and make myself fall behind the work??? I would not do that and I always am positive - think about the good sides, not just the bad ones.

We face new tasks every day and we cannot give up things so easily. Life is hard and we will face many failures. The thing we need to learn is how to learn from them.

maTThew

What you are experiencing now is the phenomenon that we warned you about some time last year. Your brain will learn to do exactly what you try to learn to do, i.e. what you practise doing. If you practise learning pieces accurately and well then that is what you will learn to do; if you practise learning them quickly and inaccurately then that's what you will learn to do. Of course the only practical way to practise learning pieces musically and accurately is to learn pieces that are within one's grasp that one can do this on. Yes there's a shortcut 'to the top' learning hard pieces as soon as one wants, but this comes as a cost. I recally you agreeing not to go straight on to grade 8; but you have instead just not done the exam and gone on to grade 8 repertoire, which is effectively the same thing.

Let's assume you are a pianist of 'average' natural ability (you can skew the figures whichever way you like if you believe the statement to be false). Then in this case, given that you have kept up playing for 5 years, you'd currently be between grade 4 and grade 5 and set to score about 114 on grade 5 (without having to put in more than normal preparation, whatever that might be). It's true that your other musical knowledge may be something that would put you above average; likewise it's true that your chosen learning path may disadvantage you: those that have been learning to play pieces musically and accurately will have practised that skill, hence learnt it.

If your pieces are all such an uphill struggle it probably means they are too difficult for you; there's nothing wrong with a challenge sometimes but everything being so hard is just disheartening and doesn't actually help you to learn anything from the piece. I've been at the point where I could play some difficult pieces, not brilliantly and certainly it took a long time, my solution to that was to start back at the beginning adress the problems that I had and learn the way that would allow me to achieve what I want on the piano. You have to make this choice too: if you want to learn to play musically and accurately then you have to practise playing musically and accurately. You can achieve this by going back to easier pieces, and there's plenty of 'nice' easier repertoire and working on them in a disciplined manner, not necessarily right back to grade 1 in your case, maybe to grade 4 standard pieces or so. This is, of course, If the musicality and accuracy is, as you suggest, what you want to achieve from your playing. Of course how much you want it will determine whether it's worth it to you to go back. If you're happy doing what you're doing then that's fine, but bear in mind that you'll always play as you learn to play and going back will be more frustrating the later you leave it.

Some final remarks, the first is that the metronome is your friend, it is a useful tool in ensuring accuracy (even though you don't like it). I don't think you're underachieving compared to where you should be, but if those are your goals you're simply applying your effort in the wrong direction. You need to decide what you want to get out of playing the piano and then go ahead and do the work if necessary. Good luck .

Just read back through that one - what a thread!!!

I've just been reading back on that thread. Irish loony, it is clear that you have no one to blame but yourself. To put it bluntly, you chose to ignore the advice given to you by all those people who are more experienced-at your own expense, as you have discovered.

I can only suggest (if you really love music as you said you did in that last thread), to go right back to the fundaments (below grade 5) and work your way upwards from there. Take it slowly to perfect every minor detail instead of rushing into complex pieces that are well beyond your level. It'll be hard to change this habit, but if you really care....

Do you have a teacher? If not, find one who has the experience and patience to guide you properly from the very beginning.

Congratulations on your positive attitude. It doesn't follow from your feelings that you will necessarily get a mediocre class for your degree. How do your fellow students compare? I presume you get some feedback immediately and will take end-of-year exams that will show your place in the pecking order.

I know the structure of the engineering degree is very different now from when I read for it in 1953-6. In what years do you get Tripos Part exams? In my day Part I in three years was sufficient for the honours degree, or you could take Part I in two years and Part II in the third. The equivalents to report mark-up sessions were rare and my first supervisor (for Part I) was an enormous positive influence, identifying and correcting deficiencies in the Thermodynamics lectures.

Even if the class of your degree disappoints you, remember that a Cambridge-educated engineer with a Class III degree (which in my day identified the person as bone-idle, so wouldn't have happened to you) is still an extremely useful person and probably has more earning power and job security than all but the best pianists, while the combination of technical and performing skills makes you better fitted for the workplace than either separately.

I've just read back through that thread too (well most of it)!

What's your situation now? Have you taken any exams over the last 2 years? Are you continuing to play all the instruments outlined and what level are you at?

I'm interested as my daughter wants to be a Musician and I can see her applying to Music College in a few years time. I think I read you'd added Basoon to your list of instruments!

You've done well to get accepted at Birmingham and I sincerely hope you get to study at the place and on the course of your choice.

Indeed, I'm surprised I didn't get moderated for my comments on page 14.

The greatest satisfaction I get from playing the piano is when I know that I have got a piece as good as perfect, and I let my teacher judge that, not myself. I get a thrill from sightreading a piece for the first time and recognising the tune, but that is not satisfaction. If you don't have a teacher then at least get someone who will give you critical advice when you need it.

Excellent post AP, you said so much that I agree with in there.

I-L, can I suggest you get a new teacher (you have one?). If you don't then getting a teacher would be the best thing you could do for your playing right now.
You have an offer for Birmingham and they are your first choice. Regardless of what goes on between now and Christmas with other auditions and interviews, by the new year you will have a bit more time to get your teeth into the piano (not literally, unless you are a beaver of course! ).

A different teacher, a different opinion, a different approach can all do wonders for your playing. If it means doing more technical work or taking a step back then so be it. The truth is, in the future all that groundwork you do will mean it's easier and less of an 'uphill struggle' to learn more advanced pieces. I got a new teacher and within 2 and a half years I went from a shaky Grade 6 (I got 128 by some fluke I swear - my scales were no better than Grade 4 - I mean, what's a finger number there for other than to annoy you? I was by no means bad, and neither are you, but there was a lot missing from my playing) through Grade 7 with 140, to Grade 8 with 138.

These were the first piano exams I had ever done without feeling nervous nervous (ok, nerves are helpful and needed!). I am confident with my own playing more than I ever was before. I did Grade 8 in March this year and am currently working on pieces that wouldn't be out of place on a DipABRSM programme(I think they're listed, but again you can do things off the list as well). This isn't me trying to show off because it's something I try so hard not to do, but what I'm trying to say is that a new teacher could turn your playing around. What you've said suggests to me that perhaps your technique isn't good enough to do these difficult pieces full justice. It's not hard with the right guidance to get your technique good enough not only to play that Debussy with only 2 months of work, but other more advanced repertoire as well.

Technique practice doesn't mean just studies and exercises but of course they are useful (Hanon, Czerny and friends all helped me in their time). It needn't be boring - a good teacher will be able to find repertoire for you that will have technical value as well so you dont have to plug away at exercises which I admit, is boring.

Good luck whatever you do. Don't give up... the piano is so good. I don't know what I will do when I go to Uni/Music College cos clarinet will be my first study....

No - don't go doing that! And don't give up on what's giving you a headache at the minute either; just put those pieces to bed for a while. (Remembering to write in your personal finger numbers before you do, so it'll be easy to bring them back at a later date to the level that they're at now, with a view to moving them forward. I've kicked myself recently for not doing that with pieces in cold storage!) If you leave these pieces for a while and master some easier stuff that requires similar techniques, I bet you'll find that in a year or two's time you will be able to get them back quite quickly to where they're at now, and find yourself more able to move forward with them.

How do I know? I've been there! I tried to move straight from ALCM to LLCM and hit the same brick wall as you. I just couldn't do it. Two and a half years down the line, I've been able to bring something back very quickly to where I left off, and am very pleasantly surprised at how much easier it is now to move it forward from that. There were sections that I spent endless hours on in the past, but that just stopped getting any better - that is not the case any more. So just grit your teeth and backtrack for a while!

P.S. I did laugh at AP's little head banging off the wall in that other thread!

Dear god...that exists still?! MODERATORS! DELETE IT PLEASE!!!

It would be a shame if that happens - the thread contains a great deal of advice, and several people this week have seen a lot of themselves in that GoneChopinBachSoon chap, whomever he was . It's a good record of advice, and will save the same thing happening again....

It's particularly useful to read that thread in relation to this one! Well-intentioned advice is not always taken when the one being advised is really keen and wanting to run before walking. It seems like the advice was sound, but no one would really know that for sure without reading this thread too. I know how it feels to think "I'm never going to master this/I'm not good enough/I'll never get any better"; it turned out that the first one was true, unless I changed tack, but the others weren't - and there's no reason why you should be any different!

dont quit after five years that would be a waste, keep going you must be able to play some things really well, i have been having lessons for about a 9 months, and i thought i would never improve but i have, a little bit .......

What? This one: