Hi everyone.

I play and listen to a lot of classical music (violin) but also like traditional folk/fiddle music.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what books I could look at ?
I can shift around in 3rd pos and have a go at anything really.

Any answers appreciated !

Thanks,
Fiona

Hey there!

I play fiddle in a traditional music session in a local bar - it's great fun.

Honestly, books are not the way to learn the music - all that will teach you is the notes and (if you do as I did and load a learn from a book before turning up at the session) you'll run the risk of people not actually recognising the pieces because you're playing them too straight. By far the best way to learn is to go to a session and listen to the stuff the play and join in, playing by ear. If necessary, just play the keynote in rhythm until you get better at it (it's frequently a core set of a hundred or so pieces that people play, so you'll hear the same stuff frequently). If you don't have a session near you or want some repertoire before you go, I suggest you by some CD's and listen to them, then copy what they're playing (some of the faster ones are a bit hard, but audacity can slow them down for you so it's easier to hear what's going on). I can recommend the fiddlesticks album for good old fashioned fast fiddle playing, anything by Zoe Conway and anything by Liz Caroll. They're all good and have a nice mix of traditional tunes and stuff that they have written. At the session last week, someone actually said to me - 'that was good, what was it? Will you teach it to me' - it was a modern piece from Liz Caroll's 'lost in the loop' album and I was astonished that an old pro would ask me such a question - I felt like it was a right of passage!

So, to sum up - first an foremost, try to learn from other musicians (in a session if you can), failing that, take CD's and copy them - at least this way you will learn good style and rhythm (which are not expressed in the books) - only resort to a book if you absolutely have to (O'Neill's is as good as any, I suppose).

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me, I'm enjoying being a newbie to fiddling myself - perhaps we can offer each other mutual support!

Allan

hi the above thread is right, to start of and learn sum tunes get oneills 1001 it is known as 'the book' u can't go wrongits about 10-15pounds but will last u a life time. there isn't really position changes its all about your interpretation and ornamentaion. doublestopping and sliding between notes is used a lot listen and play along to a cd. its fab fiddlin'!! just go for it andyoull love it.

Thanks for your replies. I've been off line a couple of days so haven't been able to reply.

Sounds like a great idea rather than learning music.
I'll try the O Neils book to get some ideas.

I can play by ear so I just need to listen to some tunes that I really like and learn them !

Any good toons recommended are appreciated !

Fee

If you want good standard tunes, then I reckon you would do well to start with the following:

Atholl Highlanders (jig, Scottish)
Kesh Jig (jig, Irish)
Monaghan (jig, Irish)
Jig of slurs (jig, Irish)
Swallow's tail (jig, Irish)

Harvest Home (hornpipe, Northumbrian)
Boys of Blue Hill (hornpipe, Irish)

Spootiskerry (reel, Scottish)
Hesleyside (reel, Northumbrian)
Drowsy Maggie (reel, Irish)
Jenny's Chickens (reel, Irish)
Jenny Dang the Weaver (reel, Scottish)

Then if you like slow sentimental stuff:

Lament to the first generation (liz caroll)
Rowantree hill (Northumbrian)
An Clar bog dell (Irish)
Anachain Tuireann (Irish)

These should get you started, but eventually you will need to learn whatever tunes are played at the session that you end up going to.

Good luck!

Allan

Oh wow ! Look at all the stuff I can try out !!!

I'm sooo excited. I need to listen to these.

Thank you so much Allan.

Fee

Hello,

Sounds like you got great suggestions but I am surprised you do not play fiddle music yet with all the skills you have... Here is some more suggestions that might help:

I like to participate into fiddle workshops. It is usually 1 or 2 days and unlike a jam session, the instructor is there to show you some tunes and so they play really slowly. You can really see the bow moves and they also usually bring some sheet so you remember the music when you leave. I also like to bring a small recorder (good for the jam sessions too!!!) and a pen to take some note on particullar bow moves.

There are also DVDs on great fiddlers. It is just great because you can hear them playing and see there bow wich is very important. And I agree that there are not many position changes in fiddle music but if you learn Jean Carignan style (a french canadian that plays a great deal of irish and scottish) there are some position changes (i.e. The Liverpool Hornpipe or college hornpipe well known under Sailor hornpipe in D, I like playing it). Carmelle Bégin wrote a masters thesis by doing transcription and recording of his repertoire.

I would also suggest the Irish Washerwoman as tune to start with.

Best!!!

Colin

Hello Colin,

Thanks for the suggestions.
I'd love to attend a fiddle workshop !

I suppose I haven't got around to actually 'playing' fiddle music because I'm in 2 orchestras and usually stick to the general stuff.

When I hear folk music, I'm always envious and wish I could play. I can play by ear so I suppose thats half the problem over with.

Where are from Colin and where have you attended workshops ?

Fee

Colin's advice on using a recorder is excellent, I second it wholeheartedly. Workshops are a good idea too (there will be less guinness involved so more learning, theoretically!).

I would, however, avoid the Irish Washerwoman (a, rather ironically, Scottish jig) which is generally frowned upon in sessions (collective groans tend to go up if anyone plays it). That being said, it tends to go down well in Northumbrian sessions - perhaps the closer to Scotland you are, the more you like it?....

I'm going to go and search for some of these tunes on the net

Go to www.thesession.org and you'll find everything you need.

Hi again,

I did attend workshops in Cape Breton (Nova Scotia), various places in Québec, and Edmonton (Alberta) all in Canada where I live! One day I will go oversea and participate to jam sessions and workshops around Ireland and Scotland and even maybe go to the NewPort celtic festival. Then maybe I can properly learn Skinners and Coleman style!!!

Anyhow, you should really listen to the tunes few times if you want to play them properly and as mentionned before, seeing someone playing them is even better because you see and hear bow moves and ornamentations which are the heart of fiddle music.

In my opinion, I would not avoid any tunes if you are able to play it properly, at least try cause if you don't it is certain you will not play it. I personally like the Irish Washerwoman even if I also noticed that when you play it in jam sessions people seem confused. My favorite key to play it is F (because the accent you can give on the A string with the bow when you go down at the end of the second part), but I don't think there are any transcription of this version, most people play it in G. But Allan might be right that it would be more difficult if you start because of that confusion with other people. Could you explain me why people do not like it Allan?

Colin

Generally they complain that it's played to death and therefore only dragged out of the cupboard by people who are new (and generally not very good) to traditional music. I know this because I made the mistake of playing it in one of my first sessions (oops!) - but perhaps things are different in Europe to Canada? Who knows. It's probably a case of seeing how it's received where you live. Like I said, in Northumbria, where my family are from, it goes down well in sessions - but in France, it bombs and the Irish musicians I've spoken to who play in our French session tell me that it bombs where they're from too - they see it as a big cliché. You want something traditional sounding - drag out the Irish washerwoman...

I'm pretty sure on the site I recommended they say the same thing about it in the States too - I don't know if there are any Canadians on it though.

Hi ,

Thanks for the link Allan. Can you sample the music on the site ? (Its a bit late and not looked properly )

Welcome to the forums Colin ! I've just noticed that you have only just joined.
So you live in Canada. How lovely ! You must try and come for a jamming session in Scotland/Ireland (or anywhere for that matter) sometime. Maybe a few of us can get together.

I've not got around to finding the Irish Washerwoman yet.
Three children in bed, three lunch boxes made up, 'Lost' Series 3 and a quick update on the forums before bed ! Phew !!!

Will definatley look it up tomorrow.

Fee

Thanks Allan!

I also noticed that people didn't catch very well on the Irish Washerwoman in canadian jam sessions. However, I play a mix of jigs starting with the washerwoman in G and then go on to another jig like swallow tail, come back to the washerwoman in A, then another jig, then finnish with washerwoman in F (my favorite version) and people tend to get in and play along to learn it in other keys. When you mix it, it goes well. That is my experience.

Thanks also for the link. I might register when I have time.

I will let you know for sure when I go oversea! Then you can give me hints on jam sessions and workshops!!!


Colin

Sounds like an interesting set! Just drop me a line if you need info on sessions in the North of the UK or in the North of France.

Allan

Hi,
If you are looking for a session to join in, and can get to Kent, there are quite a few Celtic and mixed sessions on various days of the week.
A weekly high quality Celtic session is found at the Anchor Inn, Wingham, CT3 1BJ, on the A257 near Canterbury. 8.30 - 11pm on Wednesdays.

For a fairly current list of Kentish sessions, see :
http://www.kentfolk.com/sessions/KentFolk_Session_list.html
where you will also find a button to (freely) subscribe to a Google calendar of Kentish sessions, that I do my best to keep up-to-date.

A significant session coming soon is :
A Celtic Session with Saskia Tomkins and Steafan Hannigan :
Saskia Tomkins and Steafan Hannigan are current and recent All Britain Fleadh winners for Fiddle (Slow Air), Uilleann Pipes, Flute, Whistle, and Bodhran. Now resident in Canada, they are visiting the UK and the continent. As part of a long week-end of music with them, the regular monthly Celtic Session in The Anchor, Faversham has been delayed a week to enable them to take part.
Sunday 1st April, 8:30 pm Anchor Inn, 52 Abbey Street, Faversham, Kent. ME13 7BP

You will be most welcome at any of these sessions.
cheers,
Dr. Beau Webber.

Where do you buy the Oneills book from?
Thanks,
Lil_miz_music xx

The O Neill's is available for free online, but to be honest you want to avoid learning the tunes from sheet music alone - you need the input of hearing it played because the style is everything (things such as bowed triplets, double stopping, off beat accentuation and cross bar bowing are not shown in the manuscripts).

Search for the BBC virtual session, if you want a good place to start for fiddle music.

Good luck!

Allan

Actually, if anyone's thinking of buying the O'Neill's, be sure to ask for the fiddle version. Apparently there are slightly different versions of the written tunes for different instruments (or so I was told by a fiddler friend once).

It wouldn't be obvious to me that it's a fiddle version rather than anything else from looking at the book though, so I'm not too sure about this.

I'd agree that you really need to hear the tunes, the written tunes look quite different. Going to a session is a brilliant idea, but if there's not one nearby, there are a lot of "learn to play" DVDs on the market (usually with accompanying books) amd there's probably a lot of free stuff on youtube and other sites (a lot of those books/DVDs can be pretty expensive and you might want to try them out in the shop - if they have a TV and DVD player - before deciding if they suit you)

Thank you, that website is great!!!!