Hi all,

Can anyone tell me please if the Viola transcription of the Elgar Cello Concerto is in the same key (E minor) as the original? I understand that the C string needs to be tuned down to B in order to play the first movement, is this correct?

Not that I'm going to be able to play it on either instrument for a very long time, but you know....it's nice to dream

Tune the C string down?! Oooh eck

Viola transcription? Does that work? *is suspicious*

Most cello pieces will transcribe well for the viola. There would be no need to change the key from the original and no need to retune any strings unless that happened in the original piece. The viola does not have as large a repertoire as the cello. They often borrow cello music!

Well, Lionel Tertis was one of the most famous viola players ever and according to Wikipedia his transcription of the Elgar Cello Concerto requires the C string to be tuned down half a tone....hence my confusion....

Then it is almost certainly correct, but I cannot really see why he would want to do this. The viola would play it an octave higher than the original and I only know of one transcription of the work and it was not re tuned for that. I cannot remember whose it was, but not Tertis. My father, who was a keen amateur violin and viola player as well as a maker of stringed instruments, owned a viola that Lionel Tertis had commissioned and it was enormous! Big enough to be played as a child's cello!

Thanks Petrat, can you remember if the viola transcription you came across was also in E minor like the original? I haven't been able to find any other transcription apart from the Tertis, so this is cool

ETA apparently the Tertis version was sanctioned by Elgar himself, and Elgar even conducted the first performance with Tertis as a soloist. The first movement is indeed played in scordatura with the C string tuned down (never come across that term before, you learn something new every day!), I've no idea why though - maybe to give the viola some welly?

I doubt this version could ever sound as lovely as the original cello version (I can feel the cellists bristling with disgust that part of their repertoire has been pinched by the violas!) but personally I think I stand a much better chance of playing it on my viola than on my cello

Tertis has given an account of his transcription of the Elgar cello concerto for viola in his book 'My viola and I'. I don't have the book in front of me at moment, but I can check it later. He specifically mentions the passage where he retunes his viola C string. He describes how he did the retuning without anyone noticing. He wanted to do this to surprise Elgar by playing a particular passage at the same pitch as the orginal.

Tertis played his transciption to Elgar to get the composer's approval of it because he felt that this was important. At the time he was working hard to get the viola accepted as a solo instrument, and was trying to persuade as many composers as possible to write for viola, but he didn't manage to persuade Elgar.

It apparently works very well as a transcription for viola, although it is not a piece I want to play on mine. In my mind it is linked too closely to its performance by a single performer and other performances just can't compare.

It was too long ago, but it was in E minor and with no re tuning. I used to try to play bits of it using the obese viola as a cello! It was a printed copy though and had an ornate border to the front page. Sorry but that is all that I can recall.

I guess you're talking about the Jacqueline Du Pre performance? I agree that other performances can't compare. But as a beginner cellist/viola player her performance is the most inspirational thing, and it's exciting to try to play the main theme from the 1st movement. I'm using it to help me learn the alto clef!




Ah, never mind, thanks though. I've seen a pic of Lionel Tertis with one of his violas - it was a whopper!

Can we just be clear about this (sore point with a dear friend of mine, and he would never forgive me if I didn't). This is a RICHARDSON viola, not a Tertis model. Tertis liked to get his name on it, but it was Arthur Richardson who designed and made them. The idea was to have the top bouts and fingerboard the same as violin and the lower bouts much wider so that the volume of resonating air was the same as traditional viola. A bit of a "does my ###### look big in this" viola. I think they may be a little deeper too. The weight of the instrument is therefore more balanced on the player's shoulder and although the lower bouts are larger it is easier to handle. The tone is wonderfully deep. I've actually had a go on one, said dear friend has a wonderful one, and 2 Richardson violins.

Now if only he could get a Richardson cello the quartet would be complete...anyone know where there is one?

Edit: Oh well I guess you can decipher what ###### was!

I did not know that. It was a long time ago but the instrument was very long and actually looked far more like a half size cello. Not deep bodied though, just really long!

In his younger years Tertis played a 43.5cm (17 1/8 inch ) Montagnana viola. He wasn't a particularly large man and eventually the large viola caused his retirement from performing.


The 'Tertis model' violas made by Arthur Richardson had a body length of 42.5cm ( 16 3/4 in) so were not that long so maybe this wasn't one of these instruments. Tertis favoured large violas so maybe in his younger days he had a larger viola made.

My father was tall, just over six feet, and he could only just manage to play it. It was more than a full stretch of his arm to the end of the scroll once it was in a playing position. It was set up as a viola and not as a cello with an end pin and he always used to say that it had belonged to Tertis, who had commissioned it. He used to buy most of his instruments from a dealer called Tommy Smith in Birmingham, where he had been at medical school in the thirties. It is possible that it came from there. I wish that I could solve the mystery now.

I was speaking to a keen viola player in the interval of a concert of the Elgar cello concerto (on the Cello!) I was told the same story- this man said he had tried it in the past, with the retuning but he said how difficult the fingering became with the bottom string.