I need to get a new viola bow.

Could anyone recommend a shop in the south-east with a good stock of decent viola bows to try?

I am not really sure what I am looking for yet, just something significantly better than the bow I am currently using, so I want to try out quite a few to get an idea of what I like/don't like. Ideally I would like to be able to try out different makes of carbon-fibre bows as well as new/old wooden bows.

Thanks

You could try Ealing Strings (tel 020 8992 5222) in Ealing. They are a specialist string shop and we have found them very helpful over the years ( I bought a violin there 30 odd years ago and we have bought our daughter's full size cello and bow from them).

We have also been very pleased with the service we've had from Frederick Phelps Ltd (tel 020 7482 0316) in Kentish Town. Daughter's half and three quarter-size cellos and bows came from them. The ownership of the shop has changed since we last used them, but I have heard that it is still excellent.

We have found that stocks vary quite considerably, so it is always worth a phone call to find out exactly what they have before travelling.

Good Luck - hope you find a bow you really like!

Another avenue to try is stores further afield or online who will send you bows on approval - Liz at Elidatrading may be willing to do it, and I suspect that other stores would as well.

http://www.philipbrown-violins.co.uk/whoarewe.htm
Philip Brown is a luthier and stringed instrument dealer and repairer with a workshop/shop in the centre of Newbury.

http://www.aviolin.com/bows.html
Andrew Hooker used to be in the musical instrument department of Sothebys, but now sells stringed instruments and bows from his home/showroom in a redundant Georgian Church at Rode Hill near Bath. Not sure if that counts as South-East!

Good hunting! I hope you will enjoy the search and find something exactly right for you.

Personally, I wouldn't touch Ealing Strings with a barge pole. Overpriced and overated these days. I'm sure several decades ago they were a lot better, but now, no thanks. Colleagues of mine have had students ripped-off by them, more than once!!!

I would recommend J P Guivier in Mortimer Street, London. They are helpful, knowledgable, take a huge pride in presenting their stock in first class condition and their prices are very competitive. You can also spend as long as you like trying things out, with absolutely no pressure from them to take anything away or purchase.

AmandaL

How very interesting to read your views on Ealing Strings and Guivier as we have had exactly the opposite experience!

We bought a cello from Ealing strings a couple of years ago and a bow more recently than that. We found them helpful and the atmosphere very unpressured. We took several instruments to try over a number of weeks and did the same with the bows. Teachers and other musicians who have tried these out since have commented that they thought we had got a very good deal.

When we went to Guiviers, they were reluctant to allow our daughter to try the instruments even in the shop and were very restrictive about how long we could take the instrument on approval. We found them most unhelpful and would try very hard not to use them again even though they are much easier for us to travel to than either Ealing Strings or Phelps.

I think that in light of our differing experiences, I would probably suggest to anyone looking for an instrument or bow to try out as many as possible in as many different shops as possible.

Yes, it is certainly interesting to read of such differing experiences. I took out numerous bows from Guivier over a continuous six month period, taking some of them away with me three or even four times, before deciding which one to buy. Never once did they get fed up with me or my indecisivness.

The only good (personal) experience I had with Ealing Strings was on the purchase of a brand new violin made by one of their own makers, Miles Doubleday. It is a superb instrument and the tone has developed nicely. Sadly, the maker has now moved to Canada.

But, quite rightly (as you have said) anyone wanting a bow or instrument needs to try as many as they can and to shop around.

There is also Adam Whone, based in Acton, not a million miles from Ealing Strings. He's a sole trader now, but used to work in Whithers workshop. Andrew Riley is another possibility, in Egham, Surrey.

Thank you for the recommendations. I think it is going to take me a long time to decide what I am actually looking for. I shall try a few of the London shops and also the one near Bath. I am worried that I might get pressurised into buying a bow that isn't really right for me just because I can't make up my mind about what I want.

I wonder if some shops treat customers differently depending on whether they are professional musicians or amateurs.

Whatever you do, do try the two Glassers - impossible to beat at anywhere near the price if the weight happens to suit you. Glasser is here:

glasser

liz

Liz

How heavy are the Glasser carbon fibre bows?

Most of the carbon fibre bows seem to be very light compared to traditional viola bows. I know that when I use my lighter violin bow on my viola it does seem that I have to work harder to get a good tone. I know you play viola - how do you find the glasser bows compared to traditional bows?

There seem to be huge price differences between the different makes of carbon fibre bow, I don't know if they are justified or if is just marketing hype. I guess I just need to go and try a few.

O you've asked me now - I'll weigh them and let you know. I use the BCF one for orchestral playing (at least I did before I did my shoulder in, can't play now) and yes, it's light and you have to put a lot of weight into it to get the tone, but I found it useful for hiding in an orchestra Most viola players prefer the ordinary carbon graphite which is quite heavy. I'll dig the scales out and weigh mine and see what i can tell you.

Arcus and Coda are certainly very light, violinists seem to like that, not sure why

I haven't yet found a viola bow that I prefer to the Glasser. I have found a violin bow I preferred to the Glasser, but since it was £1800 I didn't buy it. But preferences vary enormously and then of course some people just don't like carbon bows.

Liz

OK then, the BCF is weighing in at 69.8g and the carbongraphite at 72.5g - which sound like fairly normal viola bow weights to me.

Liz

Sorry to bring up an old thread. When I bought my viola, it came with a violin bow, although I didn't find that out til a few months later. Now, the more I improve. the more it feels like I'm drawing a feather across the strings, having to force a nice sound. I tried out a friend's viola bow the other day and it felt so much easier to play. Does anyone know where I might be able to get a cheapy rubbishy viola bow so that I can at least develop the right bowing technique and not force the sound too much? My main problem is location, I'm down in Cornwall so I might have to get one off the internet. I don't really want to spend much on this first one, I'll invest more when i get better (and richer ), but I'd appreciate any advice.

I'm in need of a different viola bow too. I haven't had the instrument that long (a year or two, but have only started playing it properly this year). The instrument and bow were both cheap (500 and 50 pounds respectively). I'm learning some grade 8 and diploma pieces at the moment and it's just not good enough I know I probably need to change both the instrument and the bow but at the moment it just isn't financially viable. I was thinking I might start by getting a different bow to see if that makes a difference. The current bow is quite chunky and I can't seem to do anything subtle with it!

Might it be worth looking for a different bow, in the hope this will make some difference before I can afford a better viola?

It could make quite a difference.

Liz




Yes, try the internet. I am sure people will post up their recommendations.

Liz

Hey Boo, I'll give you two recommendations:

1) Carbon fibre from Liz (www.elidatrading.co.uk)
2) www.stringmail.com

Good luck!

I'm tempted by carbon fibre, actually...

I recently had a go with my friend's c.f. violin bow and was impressed.

I have a carbon fibre cello bow (codabow classic), which I love, and I have a basic carbon fibre violin bow which I got from Liz a year or so ago and which I still like very much (very good bow for the relatively low price). CF is worth bearing in mind... even CF instruments... (hides in the cupboard to avoid the onslaught of irrational wood is better snobbery).

I'm not sure this will help but I can't tell the difference between viola bows and violin bows, I was once doing some last minute practise before I was going to play in assembly at my old school, when I dropped my bow an it snapped in half, so my teacher went and got me a viola bow as it was all she had in her car, she said it would be a lot harder but I found it just the same, but that's probably just me.

They're generally a TINY bit shorter and a bit heavier.

Hello, I need a viola bow that doesn't cost much that will let me get to grade 5 or 6 standard maybe for now. Does anyone think THIS ONE looks any good? The feedback is out of this world!

You really need to try bows before deciding. This may look good and might well be good, but you won't know if it suits you and your viola until you try it for a few days.

I would advise getting a few in your price range from a dealer who will let you have 3-ish for a few days to try. That way you will be sure the balance point is right, the weight is right for you, and you are happy with the way it plays.

Good Luck in bow hunting

I don't think you can tell just by looking at them. I would guess that the bow originates in China. I think some of the Chinese bows are good value for money, but you do really need to try it first. I find that I can tell some bows just aren't right as soon as I pick them up.

I still can't make my mind up about bows and what I actually want. I am sort of torn between getting an arcus bow and a modern wooden bow. I'm a bit worried about whether I will get on OK longterm with an arcus bow as they are so light, and also according to information I have seen about them bow rehairing isn't exactly the same as with traditional bows. It is so difficult to decide.

I have an Arcus violin bow and am very very satisfied with it. I know viola bows will be a bit heavier, but if I'd have realised you could have had a go on Sat. I think I got a much better bow for my money than if I had got a wooden one at the same price. And I never have had a problem with rehairing. I'm sure it is the same as a traditional bow.

Janexxx, which sort of Arcus bow have you got? How did you decide which one to go for? I read that it takes time to adjust to using an Arcus bow as they feel so different to traditional bows. I have got so used to playing with my current bow, which is not a good bow at all, that I don't really trust my judgement when trying out new bows.

I've been considering either the sonata or sinfonia, but they are so expensive I don't want to make the wrong decision. And now they seem to have brought out a newer heavier bow, the Allegro, just to make things even more complicated.

Its a Sonata. When I had it Arcus only made two sorts, the Sonata and (I think) the Concerto. I got it on approval for a start, but from the very beginning I knew it was not going back!

I keep thinking of getting a wooden bow, but to be honest I think I would have to pay A LOT to get anything with a significant improvement, so have never really gone down that route. I guess if I want to upgrade I should save up for a cadenza! The main criticism I have is the attitude of others towards anything not made out of wood, not the bow itself.

*goes to Arcus website to check prices of the cadenza*

I see what you mean, only I don't think at a dealer I'll get a bow any where near as good as that one for the same price. And don't you just adjust to your bow the same as with other things in life? I got up to grade 5 on a really appalling piano which I only realised the quality of after I got a new second-hand one. Also, as far as viola goes, I have so far been playing with a really rubbish violin bow which came with the instrument. I don't have a high budget and I know I can change in a year or two's time if I want so would it really be that bad to get one that at least I know is quality?

How do you know this bow is quality? You do adjust to your bow to some extent but some cheap bows are difficult to play with as they just aren't strong enough. You just can't tell what this one will be like, it could be a good bow or it could be a complete waste of money.

If you are on a tight budget you might be better off trying to buy an old bow from a viola player in an orchestra that you play in. When someone upgrades to a better bow they often keep the old bow as a spare, but never use it, and so might be willing to part with it quite cheaply. For example, I am looking for a new bow, but I already have two bows, one that I used for all my grades including grade 8, and one that is a bit better, which I use all the time now. I never use the older one but can't be bothered with selling it, so when I do get a new bow I will have two spares.

I assumed that the bow was good from the 4253 positive feedbacks and 0 negative feedbacks. I see your point about the orchestra, I'll have to make a decision I think.

I think it's probably fine - that seller has impressive feedback and a hotline into China that I rather envy. In particular, I wish I knew where he gets his cases from!

The bow is common enough from the looks of it - we certainly get ones that are very similar in appearance and slightly lower in price, and I can tell you they would be a lot more if they came through a wholesaler. It should certainly be better than what you've got now. Whether it will be the best you can get within your budget rather depends on your budget. I do agree that getting some sent on approval would be better.

Liz

Thanks for the advice Liz. Would you mind giving me some advice on another one I've seen too? Pernambuco stick

yes - the same comments apply (though I have to say we'd charge more for that one) "German silver" is nickel, I think. "Pernambuco" in terms of Chinese bows is probably optimistic, but it probably is what the maker has claimed. If it's the same as the ones we get (and it certainly looks the same) then it is a nice buy - this is one of the most popular bows we sell, at least the violin version is.

Liz

Thanks very much Liz, I think I will get that one. I know it is advisable to take bows out on approval and if viola was my first instrument then I definitely would, but all I need is something that I know will do me for a year or two at a low cost for now. I will worry about personality and playing style in a few years time I think. Thanks to everyone for the advice though, I really appreciate it.

you could try this shop called turner violins. They specialise in all bowed string instruments. And it is a really good shop, selling cheap instruments and bows, from everything up to thousands of pounds......
www.turnerviolins.co.uk

I got the bow by the way everyone, it's very nice. I can really feel the difference on the C string especially.

I'm reviving this thread because I'm finding it interesting and wonder whether there are any updates.

I have a Glasser bow that came with my Gems viola - I don't know how much it weighs. I am beginning to feel that I would like something a bit heavier as it does seem to be quite hard work to get a good sound. I am on a very tight budget and don't know what I should be looking for.

Can Liz or anyone else offer advice?


W

I didn't like the Glasser bow that came with my 16" viola so I took a chance and bought 2 viola bows via internet (the local luthiers over-price everything here in Texas ) I was fortunated to get a decent Chinese made pernambuco bow for $120.00 on E-bay and it weights about 72g. But when I switch to the 15", it sounds a bit sluggish. I got a Johann Krausch viola bow from StringWorks and it sounds great with the Gama. It is a lively bow (my teacher's words) and it's lighter than the chinese bow. My teacher uses (and prefers) CF bows and I think my Krausch bow weight about the same, and he concured that I have pretty good bow and it should serves me well for the next few years unless I plan on going pro (which I am not -- I just want to be able to play all Star Trek TV Series themes ) I spend about $250.00 for it, including taxes & S/H.

Glassers are normally regarded as heavy. Personal preference is a major factor with bows. I'd suggest that you contact a good online retailer who might be prepared to send a tube of bows out on approval and then go from there. You might even find that you could trade your existing bow in.



Liz